Michael Uslan – Batman Executive Producer

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When I get a call from one of the studio

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execs, What do you think of Tim’s new idea,

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having Michael Keaton play Batman? I

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thought they were playing a joke on me.

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I was destroyed.

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But then Tim Burton, in his genius,

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explained to me.

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Tim had this thing, which I always call the

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big idea.

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It’s his big idea that changed Hollywood

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forever, changed the comic book industry,

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changed the world culture’s perception

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about superheroes and comic books.

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And he said…

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If we’re going to do the first ever dark

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and serious comic book superhero movie, and

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we don’t want to get unintentional laughs

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from audiences around the world who have

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never read a comic book before, this movie

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cannot be about Batman.

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He said, No, this movie has to be about

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Bruce Wayan.

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Hi, Rachel.

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Hey, Jeanette.

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So, we just got off a epic interview.

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Super,

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as you had said before.

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Michael Uslan is the executive producer of

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all the Batman films since 1989, but he is

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more than just that.

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He’s from New Jersey.

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And he has a lot of Jersey pride.

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And he is also the chair of the New Jersey

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Film Commission.

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And he has

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been instrumental in

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shaping the direction of the film industry

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here in New Jersey, which we talk about in

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the beginning part of this interview, talks

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about his journey

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from being a kid really interested in comic books.

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and his passion once he discovered Batman being

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a

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human, it really resonated with him.

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It is an incredible story.

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He explains how even, you know, with all

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the ups and downs and tons of rejections

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that he just kept persevering and also

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relying on his community, his family, his

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friends, and made his dreams happen.

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And now his story is the basis

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of

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a Broadway show.

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We’re gonna call it.

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He’s he’s a superhuman.

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There needs to be a comic book about him. Yeah. So

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with that, please enjoy this interview with

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Michael Uslan.

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The boy

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who loves that.

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Michael Uslan, it’s so nice to have you on

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Lost in Jersey.

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Thank you.

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If there’s any place in the world I’d

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prefer to be lost in, it is definitely New

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Jersey.

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Good to hear.

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We’ve been we were lost here for a while,

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but I think we’re slowly acclimating and

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becoming found.

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Yeah, after 20 years.

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Yeah,

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the worst lost I was ever in New Jersey was

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just after I got my driver’s license at age

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17 I was approaching Eaton Town Circle and

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couldn’t figure out how to get off of it so

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I was just going around in circles for the

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better part of the next year but other than

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that I’ve done pretty well European

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vacation

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that’s right

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have navigated New Jersey very well and

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your whole entire career very well.

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I want to tell people how I got introduced

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to you, and it was at the New Jersey Film Expo.

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It was an incredible first rollout for the expo.

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I was really very impressed.

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I’m sure you were very happy with what you

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saw as well.

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It was amazing.

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What’s happening in New Jersey now in terms

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of motion picture and television and

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digital production is,

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I think, the number one success story in

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the entire industry at this point.

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In Los Angeles, the industry is in a state

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of depression.

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I mean, depression.

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But here we are booming and every year

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significantly tops the year before.

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I think over the next few years, Hollywood

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will become more a state of mind than a

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physical place.

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And everybody in LA is talking about New

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Jersey becoming Hollywood East.

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I remind them that Hollywood is simply New

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Jersey West. The

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Jersey pride that you have is so

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contagious. I mean,

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I listened to your The Boy Who Loved Batman

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book and it just made you so proud to be

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from New Jersey.

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And also when you go to Hollywood, you keep

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finding your connections back to New York.

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You know, it’s just everybody seems to be

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from the East Side that you were connecting

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with when you were there too.

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So I love that it all comes back to the

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East Coast.

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Yeah, it really is true in so many ways.

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When I first started in the industry, it

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was hard to find people in LA who were

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native born.

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They were mostly transplants and largely

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from New York, New Jersey area.

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That’s changed now.

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And there’s new generations that are

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homegrown LA. And

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unfortunately now, due to lack of jobs and

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opportunities, are looking to see what

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other states they could come to.

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So I think one of the things that we’re

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most proud of is

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Unlike some states, we bill ourselves as

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the most diverse state in the union, and we

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want diversity.

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We want people to come here and be a part

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of this with us.

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And we even offer a New Jersey special tax

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incentive diversity bonus,

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which is an additional 5%

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if your cast and crew

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meet our requirements for diversity, and

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that includes male, female.

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So we’re very proud of who we are, and

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that’s one of the reasons we’re being so

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successful.

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That’s great.

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First, can you tell people what your

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role is with the New Jersey Commission?

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Yeah, I’m chairman of the New Jersey Film

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Commission, and I’ve been a member of the

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Film Commission since, I believe, 1984.

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So I’ve been around the block a little bit

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with this over many governors, and

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Governor Murphy, in a bipartisan effort,

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has really done a tremendous We have a

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tremendous job in giving us every tool we

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need to attract filmmaking to New Jersey,

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as evidenced very, very plainly by the

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groundbreaking recently at Fort Monmouth of

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Netflix Studios.

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It’s going to be followed soon in Bayonne. We have

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under construction Lionsgate Studios in

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Newark, and things are happening.

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And the Film Commission does an

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extraordinary job

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working under economic development

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authority.

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And the unions are our partners in this,

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and everybody’s working real hard to make

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it work.

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I know that the tax credits are, you know,

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a big generator of films coming in.

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Is this a burden on the

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average New Jersey citizen and taxes or

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anything like that? No, it’s not because

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the return on investment is huge.

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And shortly they’ll be coming out with some

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facts and figures about how tremendous the

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return on investment has been.

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It’s totally about economic development.

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job training and jobs.

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That’s the whole thing.

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And when you get to take Meadowlands Arena,

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which has gone through many names, that was

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just sitting there like a latke doing

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nothing after the sports teams left, and

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within 30 days of the tax credit, we have

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turned it into

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TV studios, and I think we’re up to the

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seventh or now maybe the eighth

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TV series shooting there,

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and it’s an absolute hub of economic

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development and jobs, and that’s what this

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whole thing is about, and it’s having a

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great positive economic impact on the state.

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A bonus is it increases our tourism because

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it improves and increases New Jersey’s image

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around the world.

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When I first started this business, when

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executives or talent heard, I was from New

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Jersey, I had to listen to every Tonight

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Show New Jersey joke.

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But the turning point being The Sopranos

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and the Seaside Heights Beach House for music.

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All of a sudden Jersey became cool. And

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also we started to get Sopranos like

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respect.

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And that was.

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So we

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needed a

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mafia

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to make us look cool.

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I think what we need is Bruce Springsteen.

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I think it starts and stops right there.

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It is true.

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Well, you know, that’s the thing about

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what’s really interesting about your story

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is that you are from New Jersey and you

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have had such incredible success with

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Rachel.

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I was thinking you were nominated for

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New Jersey Hall of Fame recently.

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I’m like, who?

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Thank you.

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To start though, where your,

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how you grew up, because reading your book,

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we really just enjoyed hearing, first of

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all, your infectious joy

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come through the page. But

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your voice, when you talk about your

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family, and one thing that really stuck out

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to me is how you said that you grew up with

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a dad that loved his job, loved, loved, loved,

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and woke up every day and loved going to

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work as a Mason.

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And I would love to just hear a little bit

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more about your family.

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Yeah, my dad was extraordinary.

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He had to drop out of Bayonne High School

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when he was 16 to go to work to help his

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family survive the Depression. And

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my dad, as a mason, was an old world

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artist.

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He was a craftsman.

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And I wish I would take you on a tour down

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the shore

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of the homes he built, the

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fireplaces, the chimneys

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that are still standing today that are so

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magnificent.

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And he worked six days a week from age 16

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to age 80.

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Loved what he did.

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He worked on days like today,

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98 degrees, New Jersey humidity through the roof.

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He worked in the snow, but every morning

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before dawn, he got out of bed six days a

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week, big smile on his face.

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Let’s get the day started, can’t wait to

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get to work.

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And my older brother Paul and I, growing up

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in that house, how can you not want that

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for yourself? How could you not want to say

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on a rainy Monday morning,

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Oh boy, I can’t wait to get to work.

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And that’s the magic of this whole thing.

269
00:08:49,920 –> 00:08:51,790
So my dad had my brother and I work

270
00:08:51,800 –> 00:08:53,910
construction for him during summers in high

271
00:08:53,920 –> 00:08:54,320
school.

272
00:08:54,560 –> 00:08:55,280
It was terrible.

273
00:08:55,360 –> 00:08:57,270
We were tarring foundations and carrying

274
00:08:57,280 –> 00:08:58,400
bricks and cement.

275
00:08:58,960 –> 00:09:00,080
It was, it was awful.

276
00:09:00,160 –> 00:09:01,440
But that was my dawning.

277
00:09:01,920 –> 00:09:04,630
And when my dad told me, okay, go out and

278
00:09:04,640 –> 00:09:06,640
find your own bricks and stones. And

279
00:09:06,880 –> 00:09:10,950
based on my upbringing as this geeky kid, I

280
00:09:10,960 –> 00:09:13,230
knew early on it had to be comic books and

281
00:09:13,240 –> 00:09:14,400
superheroes and

282
00:09:14,840 –> 00:09:17,040
cartoons and movies and TV.

283
00:09:17,120 –> 00:09:18,550
That’s where my heart was.

284
00:09:18,560 –> 00:09:19,990
That’s where my head was.

285
00:09:20,000 –> 00:09:21,830
But what do you do when you’re a

286
00:09:21,840 –> 00:09:23,870
blue-collar kid from Jersey? You don’t come

287
00:09:23,880 –> 00:09:25,350
from money and can’t buy your way into

288
00:09:25,360 –> 00:09:25,830
Hollywood.

289
00:09:25,840 –> 00:09:27,510
You have no relatives in Hollywood.

290
00:09:27,520 –> 00:09:28,880
You know nobody in Hollywood.

291
00:09:28,960 –> 00:09:30,790
So for me, it was always a question, how do

292
00:09:30,800 –> 00:09:32,550
you make your dreams come true? And that’s

293
00:09:32,560 –> 00:09:33,600
what I had to discover

294
00:09:33,920 –> 00:09:34,400
on my own.

295
00:09:34,720 –> 00:09:37,910
And your story has so many intricate

296
00:09:37,920 –> 00:09:39,120
details that are interesting.

297
00:09:39,360 –> 00:09:39,680
How

298
00:09:40,160 –> 00:09:42,870
can you summarize for our listeners your

299
00:09:42,880 –> 00:09:45,120
journey into making your dreams True.

300
00:09:45,360 –> 00:09:46,400
Support system.

301
00:09:46,640 –> 00:09:48,470
So I was this strange kid.

302
00:09:48,480 –> 00:09:50,870
I mean, my brother was a superstar in every

303
00:09:50,880 –> 00:09:53,840
sport he ever did, and I could barely swing a bat.

304
00:09:53,920 –> 00:09:57,110
So I escaped into a world of superheroes

305
00:09:57,120 –> 00:09:58,320
and comic books.

306
00:09:58,880 –> 00:10:00,720
And I would shovel

307
00:10:01,000 –> 00:10:03,990
snow in the winters, mow lawns in the

308
00:10:04,000 –> 00:10:05,280
summers, search

309
00:10:05,520 –> 00:10:08,070
through garbage cans for bottles that I

310
00:10:08,080 –> 00:10:10,550
could return for two cents each or five

311
00:10:10,560 –> 00:10:13,310
cents, check the couch in the car behind

312
00:10:13,320 –> 00:10:14,560
the seat for change.

313
00:10:15,480 –> 00:10:17,350
That was what I had to do.

314
00:10:17,360 –> 00:10:19,670
My parents were completely supportive of me

315
00:10:19,680 –> 00:10:20,240
for that.

316
00:10:20,360 –> 00:10:22,870
They gave up so much of their time, which

317
00:10:22,880 –> 00:10:24,310
they didn’t have a lot of because they

318
00:10:24,320 –> 00:10:26,950
worked so much, to making sure I was making

319
00:10:26,960 –> 00:10:29,110
the most out of my passion in life.

320
00:10:29,120 –> 00:10:30,400
It started with that.

321
00:10:30,720 –> 00:10:32,080
It was my friends.

322
00:10:32,760 –> 00:10:34,070
It was my teachers.

323
00:10:34,080 –> 00:10:36,830
I had some teachers in particular at Ocean

324
00:10:36,840 –> 00:10:39,030
Township High School that made all the

325
00:10:39,040 –> 00:10:40,400
difference in the world in my life.

326
00:10:40,720 –> 00:10:42,550
I had two English teachers, my seventh and

327
00:10:42,560 –> 00:10:43,550
eighth grade English teachers.

328
00:10:43,560 –> 00:10:44,800
They happened to be sisters-in-law.

329
00:10:44,880 –> 00:10:46,870
And it was my seventh grade English

330
00:10:46,880 –> 00:10:47,550
teacher, Mrs.

331
00:10:47,560 –> 00:10:50,150
Stiller, who told me one day, Michael, your

332
00:10:50,160 –> 00:10:51,360
writing is special.

333
00:10:51,800 –> 00:10:54,230
You are very creative and you’re a very

334
00:10:54,240 –> 00:10:55,590
good creative writer.

335
00:10:55,600 –> 00:10:57,910
And you could be doing something when

336
00:10:57,920 –> 00:11:00,320
you’re an adult with this creativity.

337
00:11:00,400 –> 00:11:02,030
She then turned me over into eighth grade

338
00:11:02,040 –> 00:11:03,430
to her sister-in-law, Mrs.

339
00:11:03,440 –> 00:11:03,920
Friedman,

340
00:11:04,600 –> 00:11:07,350
who was Genghis Khan, disguised as an

341
00:11:07,360 –> 00:11:08,680
English teacher. Mrs.

342
00:11:08,720 –> 00:11:09,920
Friedman was as

343
00:11:10,160 –> 00:11:13,030
tough and strict as you could imagine.

344
00:11:13,040 –> 00:11:15,030
And first day of class, she asked me to

345
00:11:15,040 –> 00:11:15,750
stay extra.

346
00:11:15,760 –> 00:11:16,950
And she said, Mrs.

347
00:11:16,960 –> 00:11:19,190
Stiller showed me your portfolio from

348
00:11:19,200 –> 00:11:20,640
seventh grade of all your writing.

349
00:11:21,120 –> 00:11:22,320
She said, I think she’s right.

350
00:11:22,400 –> 00:11:24,710
I think you could become a writer.

351
00:11:24,720 –> 00:11:27,350
I think you have the creative ability to do that.

352
00:11:27,360 –> 00:11:29,840
But anyone can come up with creative ideas,

353
00:11:30,080 –> 00:11:31,520
but very, very few

354
00:11:31,760 –> 00:11:33,990
spend the time or make the effort to master

355
00:11:34,000 –> 00:11:35,280
the craft of writing.

356
00:11:36,000 –> 00:11:38,590
So this year, I am going to hold you to a

357
00:11:38,600 –> 00:11:40,230
higher standard than anyone else.

358
00:11:40,240 –> 00:11:42,630
You are not going to leave this class until

359
00:11:42,640 –> 00:11:44,720
you’ve diagrammed a thousand sentences

360
00:11:44,960 –> 00:11:47,040
and understand structure and

361
00:11:47,280 –> 00:11:48,640
your vocabulary

362
00:11:48,880 –> 00:11:52,320
and what you’re going to read and why. And

363
00:11:53,120 –> 00:11:55,120
if you don’t believe that there is

364
00:11:55,520 –> 00:11:57,430
such a thing as superheroes in real life,

365
00:11:57,440 –> 00:11:58,800
you’ve never met a great teacher.

366
00:11:59,200 –> 00:12:01,110
Kind of the end of the story was when our

367
00:12:01,120 –> 00:12:03,840
first Batman movie came out in 1989.

368
00:12:04,600 –> 00:12:05,630
I tracked Mrs.

369
00:12:05,640 –> 00:12:06,390
Stiller and Mrs.

370
00:12:06,400 –> 00:12:07,120
Friedman down,

371
00:12:07,440 –> 00:12:09,670
and I sent a limousine for them, and I

372
00:12:09,680 –> 00:12:10,720
brought them to our

373
00:12:11,120 –> 00:12:12,400
premiere in New York.

374
00:12:12,480 –> 00:12:14,310
And I got to speak for 10 minutes before

375
00:12:14,320 –> 00:12:16,590
the movie started, and I told the story

376
00:12:16,600 –> 00:12:17,030
about them.

377
00:12:17,040 –> 00:12:19,190
And I said, If it wasn’t for these two

378
00:12:19,200 –> 00:12:21,030
ladies, there would be no Batman movie

379
00:12:21,040 –> 00:12:21,440
tonight.

380
00:12:21,600 –> 00:12:22,400
There would not.

381
00:12:22,880 –> 00:12:24,390
And I had them stand up, and they got a

382
00:12:24,400 –> 00:12:25,280
standing ovation.

383
00:12:25,880 –> 00:12:27,870
And that to me was like my seventh, eighth

384
00:12:27,880 –> 00:12:29,120
grade fantasy come true.

385
00:12:29,160 –> 00:12:29,510
It’s amazing.

386
00:12:29,520 –> 00:12:31,440
They must have been overwhelmed.

387
00:12:31,520 –> 00:12:33,030
It was a great moment for me.

388
00:12:33,040 –> 00:12:33,840
A thread through

389
00:12:34,080 –> 00:12:35,120
all of your stories.

390
00:12:36,160 –> 00:12:39,440
how much you thank everyone that you have,

391
00:12:39,760 –> 00:12:41,680
that has helped you along the way.

392
00:12:41,760 –> 00:12:43,910
There’s teamwork spirit that you have, a

393
00:12:43,920 –> 00:12:46,560
kindness and a thoughtfulness for everyone.

394
00:12:46,720 –> 00:12:48,470
But think about, let’s go back to New

395
00:12:48,480 –> 00:12:49,480
Jersey for a second.

396
00:12:49,600 –> 00:12:51,320
Let’s talk about the ultimate truths

397
00:12:51,640 –> 00:12:53,440
of New Jersey as I know them.

398
00:12:53,680 –> 00:12:55,880
And it doesn’t matter if you’re Jewish,

399
00:12:56,200 –> 00:12:58,480
Italian, Irish, whatever,

400
00:12:58,720 –> 00:12:59,510
family first.

401
00:12:59,520 –> 00:13:00,720
Everything in this state

402
00:13:00,960 –> 00:13:02,240
starts with family.

403
00:13:02,320 –> 00:13:05,030
Second thing is, what do I need to do? What

404
00:13:05,040 –> 00:13:07,190
do I need to sacrifice? to give our kids a

405
00:13:07,200 –> 00:13:08,030
good education.

406
00:13:08,040 –> 00:13:09,040
And third, food.

407
00:13:09,280 –> 00:13:11,120
But we won’t deal with that right now.

408
00:13:11,200 –> 00:13:13,750
But it’s a common link for me and all my

409
00:13:13,760 –> 00:13:15,440
friends, my cousins, everybody.

410
00:13:15,520 –> 00:13:17,040
It’s a common link in this state.

411
00:13:17,120 –> 00:13:19,190
And the more people I meet, whether it’s

412
00:13:19,200 –> 00:13:21,840
kids or adults, the more it proves true. I like

413
00:13:22,320 –> 00:13:24,950
how you say that, because I think that when

414
00:13:24,960 –> 00:13:25,720
you start off,

415
00:13:26,000 –> 00:13:28,480
I couldn’t believe when I start your book, how

416
00:13:28,720 –> 00:13:30,950
you’re talking about your elementary school

417
00:13:30,960 –> 00:13:33,510
friends and sharing pictures of them to

418
00:13:33,520 –> 00:13:34,160
discuss

419
00:13:34,400 –> 00:13:36,040
their relationships and how formative

420
00:13:36,160 –> 00:13:37,680
friendships are, not just

421
00:13:37,920 –> 00:13:40,470
parents and relatives, but also these

422
00:13:40,480 –> 00:13:41,910
friendships that lasted.

423
00:13:41,920 –> 00:13:44,320
In my journey through life, I’ve run across

424
00:13:44,480 –> 00:13:47,230
the majority of people who did not have a

425
00:13:47,240 –> 00:13:49,710
happy high school experience and were glad

426
00:13:49,720 –> 00:13:50,560
to escape it.

427
00:13:50,640 –> 00:13:52,830
In my community down the shore, Ocean

428
00:13:52,840 –> 00:13:54,590
Township, me and my friends were together

429
00:13:54,600 –> 00:13:56,400
from kindergarten through grade 12.

430
00:13:56,960 –> 00:13:58,710
So we were in Little League together, Cub

431
00:13:58,720 –> 00:13:59,600
Scouts together.

432
00:13:59,680 –> 00:14:01,360
We knew each other’s grandparents.

433
00:14:01,440 –> 00:14:03,840
We have a warm and fuzzy bond that cannot

434
00:14:03,880 –> 00:14:04,480
be broken.

435
00:14:05,280 –> 00:14:07,360
that is really quite unique and amazing.

436
00:14:07,760 –> 00:14:10,470
It was also an extremely intelligent, very

437
00:14:10,480 –> 00:14:12,710
competitive class all the way through.

438
00:14:12,720 –> 00:14:14,830
And when Ocean Township High School

439
00:14:14,840 –> 00:14:16,480
recently started its

440
00:14:16,960 –> 00:14:20,240
School Hall of Fame, out of, I believe, the first

441
00:14:20,800 –> 00:14:23,190
10 people who were inducted into the

442
00:14:23,200 –> 00:14:24,240
school’s Hall of Fame,

443
00:14:24,840 –> 00:14:26,350
four were from my class.

444
00:14:26,360 –> 00:14:27,600
That’s extraordinary.

445
00:14:27,760 –> 00:14:28,400
Something about

446
00:14:28,880 –> 00:14:29,350
that ear.

447
00:14:29,360 –> 00:14:29,920
Yeah, the water.

448
00:14:30,520 –> 00:14:31,230
No, it’s not me.

449
00:14:31,240 –> 00:14:32,560
It’s everybody. It’s

450
00:14:32,960 –> 00:14:33,760
that old gang of mine.

451
00:14:34,240 –> 00:14:36,240
The thing that’s interesting also is that,

452
00:14:36,400 –> 00:14:38,710
as you pointed out, you had a wonderful

453
00:14:38,720 –> 00:14:41,030
childhood, the way that you depict it, but

454
00:14:41,040 –> 00:14:44,030
yet you gravitated towards Batman and

455
00:14:44,040 –> 00:14:46,360
specifically in the comic books that you

456
00:14:46,560 –> 00:14:48,720
were reading at the time because of his

457
00:14:48,800 –> 00:14:51,510
darker, more, you know, philosophical,

458
00:14:51,520 –> 00:14:52,870
psychological side.

459
00:14:52,880 –> 00:14:55,360
And that was a driving force from what I

460
00:14:55,400 –> 00:14:58,480
understand is to bring that back

461
00:14:58,960 –> 00:15:00,710
as you, you know, as you ventured through

462
00:15:00,720 –> 00:15:01,360
your career,

463
00:15:01,640 –> 00:15:03,510
you know, going to DC comics, eventually

464
00:15:03,520 –> 00:15:04,080
working

465
00:15:04,320 –> 00:15:06,510
and writing some of the DC comic books and

466
00:15:06,520 –> 00:15:08,870
then moving your way to getting the rights

467
00:15:08,880 –> 00:15:09,600
to Batman

468
00:15:09,920 –> 00:15:12,240
and trying to bring that darker side.

469
00:15:12,320 –> 00:15:14,470
I want to, I want you to elaborate on that

470
00:15:14,480 –> 00:15:17,440
journey, but I also am curious of what was it that

471
00:15:17,720 –> 00:15:20,480
drew you to the darker character? Okay,

472
00:15:20,800 –> 00:15:21,910
that’s a fair question.

473
00:15:21,920 –> 00:15:24,510
So when I was really little, my mom said I

474
00:15:24,520 –> 00:15:25,680
learned to read from

475
00:15:25,920 –> 00:15:28,110
comic books before I was four years old.

476
00:15:28,120 –> 00:15:29,870
And my older brother Paul had been bringing

477
00:15:29,880 –> 00:15:30,800
them into the house.

478
00:15:31,040 –> 00:15:33,550
And there was a long-standing, decades-old

479
00:15:33,560 –> 00:15:34,240
tradition

480
00:15:34,560 –> 00:15:35,040
that

481
00:15:35,440 –> 00:15:38,310
many boys got their first exposure to comic

482
00:15:38,320 –> 00:15:40,390
books in barbershops, where they would have

483
00:15:40,400 –> 00:15:43,680
old comic books strewn across a broken card table

484
00:15:44,000 –> 00:15:45,760
as you were waiting to get your haircut. It

485
00:15:46,000 –> 00:15:48,390
was certainly true for me in Asbury Park at

486
00:15:48,400 –> 00:15:49,360
Red’s Barbershop.

487
00:15:49,400 –> 00:15:52,150
When I was really young, I think I started

488
00:15:52,160 –> 00:15:53,120
with things like

489
00:15:53,520 –> 00:15:54,640
Casper and

490
00:15:55,280 –> 00:15:55,520
Yeah.

491
00:15:55,680 –> 00:15:56,480
Richie Rich.

492
00:15:56,640 –> 00:15:58,830
Casper and, look, I just wanted to let you

493
00:15:58,840 –> 00:16:00,710
know before, not to interrupt you, that I

494
00:16:00,720 –> 00:16:02,000
have all of these

495
00:16:02,400 –> 00:16:04,720
comics and I have a ton of Richie Riches.

496
00:16:04,800 –> 00:16:05,910
Hold them up, Jeanette.

497
00:16:05,920 –> 00:16:07,030
Hold them up a little higher.

498
00:16:07,040 –> 00:16:09,120
All these, can you not see them? The other way.

499
00:16:09,360 –> 00:16:10,790
Do you have Archie? Yes, I have a lot of

500
00:16:10,800 –> 00:16:11,440
Archie.

501
00:16:11,720 –> 00:16:13,270
We have to talk to you about Archie, but

502
00:16:13,280 –> 00:16:14,040
I’ll wait on that.

503
00:16:15,040 –> 00:16:17,110
These are all my husband’s comic looks from

504
00:16:17,120 –> 00:16:17,920
when he was a kid.

505
00:16:18,080 –> 00:16:20,230
Well, put them back in their plastic bags

506
00:16:20,240 –> 00:16:22,070
so you’ll be able to send your grandkids

507
00:16:22,080 –> 00:16:23,120
through college someday.

508
00:16:23,280 –> 00:16:24,320
That was the beginning.

509
00:16:24,480 –> 00:16:27,190
And then Superman was the only comic book

510
00:16:27,200 –> 00:16:28,080
superhero

511
00:16:28,480 –> 00:16:29,120
in the media.

512
00:16:29,440 –> 00:16:31,630
He was on TV when I was growing up, The

513
00:16:31,640 –> 00:16:32,950
Adventures of Superman.

514
00:16:32,960 –> 00:16:34,720
Then when I got a little bit older,

515
00:16:34,960 –> 00:16:37,670
like a more mature, sophisticated six or

516
00:16:37,680 –> 00:16:40,950
seven, I gravitated to Batman and there

517
00:16:40,960 –> 00:16:42,870
were distinct distinct reasons why.

518
00:16:42,880 –> 00:16:45,190
First and foremost is the fact that unlike

519
00:16:45,200 –> 00:16:47,670
Superman or Wonder Woman, he was human.

520
00:16:47,680 –> 00:16:49,270
And that was it for me.

521
00:16:49,280 –> 00:16:51,680
I really, really identified with him

522
00:16:51,840 –> 00:16:53,590
because he had no superpowers.

523
00:16:53,600 –> 00:16:56,390
It was up to his brains and whatever he

524
00:16:56,400 –> 00:16:59,350
could train his body to do and his smarts,

525
00:16:59,360 –> 00:17:00,830
like with his utility belt.

526
00:17:00,840 –> 00:17:02,240
Second is the car.

527
00:17:02,560 –> 00:17:03,510
Oh my God, the car.

528
00:17:03,520 –> 00:17:05,190
The car is amazing.

529
00:17:05,200 –> 00:17:05,760
Amazing.

530
00:17:06,000 –> 00:17:07,600
Third, he had the

531
00:17:08,080 –> 00:17:10,880
scariest but most primal origin story of

532
00:17:11,040 –> 00:17:12,560
anyone in the history of comics.

533
00:17:12,880 –> 00:17:13,200
I mean,

534
00:17:13,440 –> 00:17:13,520
a

535
00:17:14,160 –> 00:17:16,590
young kid watching his parents murdered

536
00:17:16,600 –> 00:17:18,510
before his eyes in the street and

537
00:17:18,520 –> 00:17:20,750
sacrificing his childhood at that moment

538
00:17:20,760 –> 00:17:22,400
and swearing, taking a vow

539
00:17:22,720 –> 00:17:24,230
that he would spend the rest of his life

540
00:17:24,240 –> 00:17:26,670
walking through hell to get the guy who did

541
00:17:26,680 –> 00:17:28,240
this, get all the bad guys.

542
00:17:28,520 –> 00:17:30,320
I mean, that’s powerful stuff.

543
00:17:31,000 –> 00:17:32,950
And the final element of it is something

544
00:17:32,960 –> 00:17:34,710
Stan Lee once explained to me.

545
00:17:34,720 –> 00:17:37,510
Stan was the co-creator of the pantheon of

546
00:17:37,520 –> 00:17:38,640
Marvel superheroes.

547
00:17:38,720 –> 00:17:41,110
And he was originally my mentor and then

548
00:17:41,120 –> 00:17:43,360
became my friend, my creative associate.

549
00:17:43,480 –> 00:17:45,120
Ultimately, I helped produce

550
00:17:45,360 –> 00:17:47,550
his memorial when he passed at Grauman’s

551
00:17:47,560 –> 00:17:48,880
Chinese Theater in Hollywood.

552
00:17:49,040 –> 00:17:51,750
And Stan said to me, I have a theory about

553
00:17:51,760 –> 00:17:52,550
supervillains.

554
00:17:52,560 –> 00:17:55,280
He said, Supervillains are equally

555
00:17:55,360 –> 00:17:56,200
important

556
00:17:56,640 –> 00:17:57,920
as superheroes.

557
00:17:58,440 –> 00:18:01,030
Because ultimately, it is the supervillain

558
00:18:01,040 –> 00:18:03,000
who defines the superhero.

559
00:18:03,040 –> 00:18:05,120
Now, if you accept that, which I do,

560
00:18:05,360 –> 00:18:07,510
Batman has the greatest rogues gallery of

561
00:18:07,520 –> 00:18:09,120
supervillains in history.

562
00:18:09,760 –> 00:18:11,430
And that was the other thing that made it

563
00:18:11,440 –> 00:18:13,230
so interesting that every week you wanted

564
00:18:13,240 –> 00:18:15,510
to go back and see who was up next and, you

565
00:18:15,520 –> 00:18:17,040
know, what was going to happen next.

566
00:18:17,320 –> 00:18:18,790
So that was all part of it.

567
00:18:18,800 –> 00:18:21,230
The darkness started with the creation of

568
00:18:21,240 –> 00:18:24,480
Batman in 1939 by its creators, Bill Finger

569
00:18:24,640 –> 00:18:25,600
and Bob Kane.

570
00:18:25,760 –> 00:18:27,600
And I am one of,

571
00:18:27,840 –> 00:18:30,150
I don’t know, probably you can count them

572
00:18:30,160 –> 00:18:32,110
on one hand, the number of people left

573
00:18:32,120 –> 00:18:34,310
standing who met and talked with both of

574
00:18:34,320 –> 00:18:35,430
Batman’s creators.

575
00:18:35,440 –> 00:18:37,920
And I heard straight from Bill Finger’s mouth,

576
00:18:38,800 –> 00:18:41,070
why they created it, how they created it,

577
00:18:41,080 –> 00:18:42,240
what their vision was.

578
00:18:42,560 –> 00:18:44,960
And it was as a creature of the night,

579
00:18:45,240 –> 00:18:47,350
a dark night fighting these deeply

580
00:18:47,360 –> 00:18:49,190
disturbed villains from the shadows.

581
00:18:49,200 –> 00:18:50,720
And I knew that.

582
00:18:51,200 –> 00:18:52,000
How can you…

583
00:18:52,760 –> 00:18:54,750
How can you respect a character and not

584
00:18:54,760 –> 00:18:56,640
respect the integrity of his creators?

585
00:18:56,880 –> 00:18:58,830
So I listened to that, and that had an

586
00:18:58,840 –> 00:18:59,760
impact on me,

587
00:19:00,000 –> 00:19:02,070
and realizing that that was their true

588
00:19:02,080 –> 00:19:02,640
Batman,

589
00:19:02,880 –> 00:19:04,550
that became my true Batman.

590
00:19:04,560 –> 00:19:08,110
So when the 1966 TV show came on the air, I

591
00:19:08,120 –> 00:19:09,440
think apoplectic

592
00:19:09,840 –> 00:19:12,590
is the best word to describe my reaction to it.

593
00:19:12,600 –> 00:19:12,720
It’s

594
00:19:13,040 –> 00:19:13,840
just not.

595
00:19:14,640 –> 00:19:14,960
It was,

596
00:19:15,200 –> 00:19:15,430
it was…

597
00:19:15,440 –> 00:19:15,680
There were…

598
00:19:16,440 –> 00:19:17,950
Too comical in some ways.

599
00:19:17,960 –> 00:19:19,760
Yeah, comical, campy,

600
00:19:20,400 –> 00:19:20,960
silly.

601
00:19:21,040 –> 00:19:22,560
The ones that did me in

602
00:19:23,040 –> 00:19:25,830
were the ones where Batman puts on swimming

603
00:19:25,840 –> 00:19:28,350
trunks over his bat uniform and has a

604
00:19:28,360 –> 00:19:30,720
surfing contest against the Joker.

605
00:19:31,160 –> 00:19:33,750
When Batman ran around Gotham City holding

606
00:19:33,760 –> 00:19:35,990
a bomb where the fuse was going down, not

607
00:19:36,000 –> 00:19:37,480
knowing where to throw it safely.

608
00:19:37,600 –> 00:19:38,720
Poor Batman.

609
00:19:39,160 –> 00:19:41,910
And that’s why I then made my vow, like

610
00:19:41,920 –> 00:19:43,600
young Bruce Wayne once made his vow.

611
00:19:44,160 –> 00:19:45,840
And that, and that set me on my path.

612
00:19:45,960 –> 00:19:49,200
You went to law school and before you got

613
00:19:49,280 –> 00:19:50,470
your ultimate goal.

614
00:19:50,480 –> 00:19:51,120
Is that the

615
00:19:51,440 –> 00:19:52,960
Jewish mother of plan B?

616
00:19:53,200 –> 00:19:54,640
You better have a plan B.

617
00:19:55,280 –> 00:19:55,920
And C

618
00:19:56,480 –> 00:19:57,440
and D.

619
00:19:57,760 –> 00:19:58,960
Yes, absolutely.

620
00:19:59,200 –> 00:20:01,040
Well, it’s more complicated than that.

621
00:20:01,120 –> 00:20:03,120
I graduated with a degree in history.

622
00:20:03,280 –> 00:20:03,790
All right.

623
00:20:03,800 –> 00:20:05,670
What do you do with that in retrospect? I

624
00:20:05,680 –> 00:20:07,510
mean, I loved it and I love my professors,

625
00:20:07,520 –> 00:20:09,110
but what do you do with it? The Vietnam War

626
00:20:09,120 –> 00:20:11,590
was still on, and if I continued going to

627
00:20:11,600 –> 00:20:13,270
school, such as law school, I could

628
00:20:13,280 –> 00:20:15,600
continue to get my 2S student deferment.

629
00:20:15,680 –> 00:20:16,800
I had just gotten married.

630
00:20:17,120 –> 00:20:19,680
My wife was starting nursing school,

631
00:20:19,920 –> 00:20:22,550
so it made sense for me to stay there and

632
00:20:22,560 –> 00:20:23,750
continue on.

633
00:20:23,760 –> 00:20:25,750
Begrudgingly, I went to law school, and

634
00:20:25,760 –> 00:20:27,120
that was only after

635
00:20:27,520 –> 00:20:30,320
I had mailed down 372 resumes

636
00:20:30,960 –> 00:20:33,360
to movie and TV companies.

637
00:20:34,720 –> 00:20:36,600
attempting to get a creative job in the

638
00:20:36,640 –> 00:20:37,190
industry.

639
00:20:37,200 –> 00:20:39,920
Of the 372 resumes sent out,

640
00:20:40,160 –> 00:20:41,510
I got two job offers.

641
00:20:41,520 –> 00:20:44,470
One was to go to work for a talent agency

642
00:20:44,480 –> 00:20:45,440
in New York

643
00:20:45,680 –> 00:20:48,950
and work in their mailroom for $95 a week.

644
00:20:48,960 –> 00:20:51,150
The other was moved to LA and worked for a

645
00:20:51,160 –> 00:20:52,080
producer.

646
00:20:52,720 –> 00:20:55,110
as a production assistant and go for coffee

647
00:20:55,120 –> 00:20:57,600
for a year or two for $95 a week.

648
00:20:57,760 –> 00:21:00,480
And I did not believe, nor did my new wife,

649
00:21:00,640 –> 00:21:03,360
that we could comfortably live together on

650
00:21:03,600 –> 00:21:05,950
$95 a week in either New York or LA.

651
00:21:05,960 –> 00:21:08,000
And so therefore, plan B,

652
00:21:08,240 –> 00:21:08,640
which

653
00:21:09,360 –> 00:21:12,230
my parents And her parents were very happy

654
00:21:12,240 –> 00:21:14,080
about, she wasn’t upset either,

655
00:21:14,640 –> 00:21:16,880
but I really resented having to be there.

656
00:21:17,200 –> 00:21:17,760
But it’s so

657
00:21:18,000 –> 00:21:20,790
great that you can see how that actually

658
00:21:20,800 –> 00:21:24,470
helped along the way with negotiating and

659
00:21:24,480 –> 00:21:27,400
reading contracts and fine print. And

660
00:21:27,680 –> 00:21:28,000
no, I’m

661
00:21:28,320 –> 00:21:29,760
not sure if you believe this.

662
00:21:29,920 –> 00:21:32,310
If I let 21 year old Michael out right now,

663
00:21:32,320 –> 00:21:34,630
he would kick me in the teeth, but I

664
00:21:34,640 –> 00:21:35,990
couldn’t have accomplished what I

665
00:21:36,000 –> 00:21:37,760
accomplished without having had that

666
00:21:38,000 –> 00:21:38,590
background.

667
00:21:38,600 –> 00:21:40,440
That is what opened the door for me.

668
00:21:40,560 –> 00:21:41,120
to Hollywood.

669
00:21:41,200 –> 00:21:42,560
I was somewhere in the middle

670
00:21:42,880 –> 00:21:44,470
at that part in your book, and I was

671
00:21:44,480 –> 00:21:47,440
talking to my sons who are new in college

672
00:21:47,480 –> 00:21:49,200
and trying to figure out what they want to do.

673
00:21:49,440 –> 00:21:51,470
And I was like, you know, Michael went to

674
00:21:51,480 –> 00:21:53,760
law school, and that’s what got all those Batman

675
00:21:54,000 –> 00:21:54,240
movies.

676
00:21:55,200 –> 00:21:56,800
It wasn’t what he intended, but

677
00:21:57,200 –> 00:21:59,270
you never know how you’re going to use your

678
00:21:59,280 –> 00:21:59,830
degree.

679
00:21:59,840 –> 00:22:01,520
Can you elaborate on how that

680
00:22:02,160 –> 00:22:05,400
journey led to you acquiring the rights and

681
00:22:05,520 –> 00:22:07,360
things like that? You need a through line.

682
00:22:07,520 –> 00:22:08,240
You need

683
00:22:08,800 –> 00:22:09,590
a game plan.

684
00:22:09,600 –> 00:22:12,070
So I wanted to get into the creative side

685
00:22:12,080 –> 00:22:13,760
of movies and TV. And

686
00:22:14,320 –> 00:22:16,710
I was shut down, just trying to send out

687
00:22:16,720 –> 00:22:18,950
resumes cold when I didn’t know anybody or

688
00:22:18,960 –> 00:22:20,160
had no experience.

689
00:22:20,960 –> 00:22:23,830
So the plan was, all right, so if I go to

690
00:22:23,840 –> 00:22:26,070
law school, take every course I can find

691
00:22:26,080 –> 00:22:28,230
having anything to do with entertainment or

692
00:22:28,240 –> 00:22:29,800
the media, then get a

693
00:22:30,080 –> 00:22:33,110
legal, business, financial kind of job in

694
00:22:33,120 –> 00:22:35,590
the industry that would let me network like

695
00:22:35,600 –> 00:22:39,040
mad, learn how you finance and produce movies

696
00:22:39,280 –> 00:22:42,150
and how they get distributed, then I would

697
00:22:42,160 –> 00:22:44,950
have a shot at sneaking in a back window

698
00:22:44,960 –> 00:22:46,710
onto the creative side or onto the

699
00:22:46,720 –> 00:22:49,280
producing side, and it worked, I mean, it

700
00:22:49,360 –> 00:22:50,720
actually worked.

701
00:22:50,960 –> 00:22:53,040
Going in, my game plan was

702
00:22:53,280 –> 00:22:54,080
I will

703
00:22:54,320 –> 00:22:57,750
be a lawyer for a maximum of four years,

704
00:22:57,760 –> 00:22:59,590
just as if it’s like graduate school.

705
00:22:59,600 –> 00:23:02,080
At the end of four years, I will quit.

706
00:23:02,540 –> 00:23:05,050
I will either at that time be writing and

707
00:23:05,060 –> 00:23:06,970
or producing movies, cartoons, and

708
00:23:06,980 –> 00:23:09,530
television, or I will be delivering pizzas

709
00:23:09,540 –> 00:23:11,220
for Domino’s, but I will not

710
00:23:11,700 –> 00:23:13,930
let myself be trapping a lawyer for the

711
00:23:13,940 –> 00:23:14,900
rest of my life.

712
00:23:15,140 –> 00:23:16,940
I will not do that. You

713
00:23:17,620 –> 00:23:20,420
talk about how it took you 10 years

714
00:23:20,740 –> 00:23:21,780
of rejection

715
00:23:22,100 –> 00:23:24,580
before you got the first Batman

716
00:23:25,220 –> 00:23:28,500
in 1989, greenlit and made and done.

717
00:23:28,700 –> 00:23:31,690
And both of us remember that film, like I

718
00:23:31,700 –> 00:23:34,410
remember getting so excited to go see it in

719
00:23:34,420 –> 00:23:34,730
the theater.

720
00:23:34,740 –> 00:23:35,450
It was groundbreaking.

721
00:23:35,460 –> 00:23:37,140
Like, everybody was talking about it.

722
00:23:37,220 –> 00:23:39,610
And to look back at it now and think, there

723
00:23:39,620 –> 00:23:41,370
weren’t superhero movies.

724
00:23:41,380 –> 00:23:43,930
It was a first of its kind.

725
00:23:43,940 –> 00:23:45,370
And there was no CGI. No.

726
00:23:45,380 –> 00:23:47,540
There were no computer effects back then.

727
00:23:47,620 –> 00:23:48,690
There was no internet.

728
00:23:48,700 –> 00:23:50,180
There was no social media.

729
00:23:50,260 –> 00:23:53,220
And yet, our first Batman movie was, in my

730
00:23:53,300 –> 00:23:54,100
opinion, the

731
00:23:54,340 –> 00:23:56,420
best ever marketed movie.

732
00:23:56,660 –> 00:23:59,540
Because in that magical summer of ’89,

733
00:23:59,700 –> 00:24:02,730
billboards, posters started to appear all

734
00:24:02,740 –> 00:24:04,100
over without the name of

735
00:24:04,500 –> 00:24:04,940
the movie on it.

736
00:24:05,220 –> 00:24:08,180
Just the symbol, and it said June 23rd, and

737
00:24:08,260 –> 00:24:09,140
it was electric.

738
00:24:09,220 –> 00:24:11,700
The Bat-mania, I don’t know how to describe it.

739
00:24:12,100 –> 00:24:14,650
You couldn’t walk through Times Square, not

740
00:24:14,660 –> 00:24:16,810
20 steps without seeing someone in a Batman

741
00:24:16,820 –> 00:24:18,220
hat or a Batman t-shirt.

742
00:24:18,500 –> 00:24:20,250
Who was behind that marketing? That was

743
00:24:20,260 –> 00:24:20,900
genius.

744
00:24:20,980 –> 00:24:22,980
Warner Brothers’ marketing department,

745
00:24:23,020 –> 00:24:24,260
which was genius.

746
00:24:24,580 –> 00:24:27,130
And the president of DC Comics later told

747
00:24:27,140 –> 00:24:29,730
me that summer, the clothing manufacturing

748
00:24:29,740 –> 00:24:32,340
industry ran out of black

749
00:24:32,660 –> 00:24:35,770
material because so many Batman t-shirts

750
00:24:35,780 –> 00:24:37,930
were printed up and they couldn’t keep up

751
00:24:37,940 –> 00:24:38,730
with the demand.

752
00:24:38,740 –> 00:24:41,220
People were sadly breaking into bus

753
00:24:41,460 –> 00:24:43,290
stops to grab the posters.

754
00:24:43,300 –> 00:24:44,810
And one of the weirdest things that

755
00:24:44,820 –> 00:24:45,300
happened,

756
00:24:45,940 –> 00:24:46,140
the

757
00:24:46,900 –> 00:24:48,500
theaters were reporting in,

758
00:24:48,900 –> 00:24:51,450
that they were getting flooded with calls

759
00:24:51,460 –> 00:24:52,260
every day.

760
00:24:52,500 –> 00:24:54,650
People would say, What movie is showing the

761
00:24:54,660 –> 00:24:57,050
Batman trailer? And these people would go

762
00:24:57,060 –> 00:24:59,050
buy a ticket to that movie, watch the

763
00:24:59,060 –> 00:25:01,300
trailer for two minutes, and then leave.

764
00:25:02,020 –> 00:25:03,140
Just to see the trailer.

765
00:25:03,260 –> 00:25:04,980
But there was a dark side to it all.

766
00:25:05,540 –> 00:25:07,570
And the dark side came when the

767
00:25:07,580 –> 00:25:09,780
announcement went out of Michael Keaton

768
00:25:09,900 –> 00:25:11,130
playing Batman.

769
00:25:11,140 –> 00:25:12,970
My God, I thought they were going to

770
00:25:12,980 –> 00:25:15,250
surround Warner Brothers with pitchforks

771
00:25:15,260 –> 00:25:17,340
and torches right out of Frankenstein.

772
00:25:17,380 –> 00:25:19,060
And this is without social media.

773
00:25:19,140 –> 00:25:20,250
It was everywhere.

774
00:25:20,260 –> 00:25:22,420
The front page of the Wall Street Journal

775
00:25:22,660 –> 00:25:25,530
did like an editorial about Batman being

776
00:25:25,540 –> 00:25:28,250
campy again with Michael Keaton, who was Mr.

777
00:25:28,260 –> 00:25:30,420
Mom and a stand-up comedian

778
00:25:30,660 –> 00:25:32,490
playing Batman in a movie directed by the

779
00:25:32,500 –> 00:25:34,050
guy who just directed Pee-Wee’s Big

780
00:25:34,060 –> 00:25:34,410
Adventure.

781
00:25:34,420 –> 00:25:35,340
Can you talk about that? Yeah.

782
00:25:35,780 –> 00:25:38,100
The stories that you tell about that

783
00:25:38,500 –> 00:25:39,940
time when you

784
00:25:40,260 –> 00:25:42,650
decided to go with Tim Burton and where he

785
00:25:42,660 –> 00:25:45,050
was in his career and him telling you that

786
00:25:45,060 –> 00:25:47,060
he wanted to use Michael Keaton and also

787
00:25:47,140 –> 00:25:48,820
the Jack Nicholson story.

788
00:25:48,980 –> 00:25:50,650
Can you tell that story? Well, first of

789
00:25:50,660 –> 00:25:52,650
all, let me just, as a Jersey guy, I gotta

790
00:25:52,660 –> 00:25:53,370
mention this.

791
00:25:53,380 –> 00:25:56,980
Three of Batman’s supervillains in history

792
00:25:57,060 –> 00:25:58,580
grew up on the Jersey Shore. Did

793
00:25:59,220 –> 00:25:59,300
they?

794
00:25:59,580 –> 00:26:01,290
For those of you who don’t know, from

795
00:26:01,300 –> 00:26:04,410
Asbury Park and Bradley Beach, Cesar Romero

796
00:26:04,420 –> 00:26:06,490
went to Asbury Park High School, who played

797
00:26:06,500 –> 00:26:08,100
the Joker on the TV series.

798
00:26:08,180 –> 00:26:09,970
I still haven’t forgiven him for not

799
00:26:09,980 –> 00:26:11,570
shaving off his mustache, but that’s

800
00:26:11,580 –> 00:26:12,340
another story.

801
00:26:12,740 –> 00:26:14,690
Jack Nicholson out of Neptune went to

802
00:26:14,700 –> 00:26:15,860
Manasquan High School.

803
00:26:15,940 –> 00:26:18,100
Danny DeVito, Asbury Park’s

804
00:26:18,980 –> 00:26:19,780
favorite son.

805
00:26:19,940 –> 00:26:22,530
There’s some kind of bat magic going on in

806
00:26:22,540 –> 00:26:22,850
New Jersey.

807
00:26:22,860 –> 00:26:25,380
Maybe it’s the Jersey Devil lore that

808
00:26:25,860 –> 00:26:26,740
seeped in.

809
00:26:27,300 –> 00:26:28,210
Yeah, I liked your thinking.

810
00:26:28,220 –> 00:26:28,770
I love that, Rachel.

811
00:26:28,780 –> 00:26:29,380
That’s great.

812
00:26:29,620 –> 00:26:32,020
So it was Memorial weekend, 1980.

813
00:26:32,100 –> 00:26:32,780
I get on the

814
00:26:33,060 –> 00:26:34,060
bus coming back to

815
00:26:34,340 –> 00:26:37,180
New Jersey, and I opened the New York Post

816
00:26:37,220 –> 00:26:38,340
to the movie section.

817
00:26:38,580 –> 00:26:40,810
That holiday weekend, two big movies were

818
00:26:40,820 –> 00:26:43,370
opening up, The Empire Strikes Back, and a

819
00:26:43,380 –> 00:26:44,820
horror film called The Shining.

820
00:26:45,060 –> 00:26:47,490
I turn the page, and I see for the first

821
00:26:47,500 –> 00:26:48,100
time ever

822
00:26:48,500 –> 00:26:49,060
this

823
00:26:49,380 –> 00:26:51,780
iconic photo of Jack Nicholson.

824
00:26:52,900 –> 00:26:54,420
like peering around a doorway

825
00:26:54,740 –> 00:26:57,060
looking completely maniacal.

826
00:26:57,140 –> 00:26:58,890
And I said, This is the only actor who

827
00:26:58,900 –> 00:26:59,860
could play the Joker.

828
00:27:00,420 –> 00:27:01,940
So I tore it out of the post.

829
00:27:02,020 –> 00:27:02,730
I got home.

830
00:27:02,740 –> 00:27:03,900
I ran up to my desk.

831
00:27:03,940 –> 00:27:06,570
I took white out and I whited out Jack’s face.

832
00:27:06,580 –> 00:27:08,490
I took a red pen and I did his lips.

833
00:27:08,500 –> 00:27:09,570
I took a magic marker.

834
00:27:09,580 –> 00:27:10,340
I did his hair.

835
00:27:10,740 –> 00:27:13,130
And then I showed that to everybody

836
00:27:13,140 –> 00:27:14,820
associated with the Batman movie and said,

837
00:27:14,900 –> 00:27:16,890
Nicholson is the only actor who could play

838
00:27:16,900 –> 00:27:17,450
the Joker.

839
00:27:17,460 –> 00:27:20,370
And the day he was hired was the greatest

840
00:27:20,380 –> 00:27:22,450
day of my career to that point, followed

841
00:27:22,460 –> 00:27:24,660
maybe 10 days later or two weeks later,

842
00:27:25,100 –> 00:27:27,250
when I get a call from one of the studio

843
00:27:27,260 –> 00:27:27,980
execs, Uh,

844
00:27:28,500 –> 00:27:29,260
Michael, uh…

845
00:27:30,340 –> 00:27:30,900
I go, What?

846
00:27:31,340 –> 00:27:32,940
What do you think of Tim’s new idea,

847
00:27:33,220 –> 00:27:35,130
having Michael Keaton play Batman? I

848
00:27:35,140 –> 00:27:35,850
thought it was a joke.

849
00:27:35,860 –> 00:27:37,050
Honest to God, I thought they were playing

850
00:27:37,060 –> 00:27:37,860
a joke on me.

851
00:27:38,180 –> 00:27:39,930
20 minutes later, after they finally

852
00:27:39,940 –> 00:27:40,740
convinced me,

853
00:27:42,020 –> 00:27:43,220
I was destroyed.

854
00:27:43,940 –> 00:27:45,610
I said, Oh my God, I’ve been at this now

855
00:27:45,620 –> 00:27:46,660
seven and a half years,

856
00:27:47,380 –> 00:27:47,860
and

857
00:27:49,140 –> 00:27:50,260
it’s over.

858
00:27:50,580 –> 00:27:51,540
How could this be?

859
00:27:52,180 –> 00:27:54,410
But then Tim Burton, in his genius,

860
00:27:54,420 –> 00:27:55,450
explained to me.

861
00:27:55,460 –> 00:27:57,690
Tim had this thing, which I always call the

862
00:27:57,700 –> 00:27:58,300
big idea.

863
00:27:58,420 –> 00:28:00,570
It’s his big idea that changed Hollywood

864
00:28:00,580 –> 00:28:02,650
forever, changed the comic book industry,

865
00:28:02,660 –> 00:28:04,450
changed the world culture’s perception

866
00:28:04,460 –> 00:28:06,170
about superheroes and comic books.

867
00:28:06,180 –> 00:28:06,980
And he said…

868
00:28:07,700 –> 00:28:09,770
If we’re going to do the first ever dark

869
00:28:09,780 –> 00:28:12,610
and serious comic book superhero movie, and

870
00:28:12,620 –> 00:28:14,570
we don’t want to get unintentional laughs

871
00:28:14,580 –> 00:28:16,250
from audiences around the world who have

872
00:28:16,260 –> 00:28:18,250
never read a comic book before, this movie

873
00:28:18,260 –> 00:28:19,380
cannot be about Batman.

874
00:28:19,540 –> 00:28:21,140
That’s when I crumbled to dust.

875
00:28:21,220 –> 00:28:23,140
He said, No, this movie has to be about

876
00:28:23,220 –> 00:28:24,580
Bruce Wayne. Bingo.

877
00:28:24,740 –> 00:28:25,690
Bingo is right.

878
00:28:25,700 –> 00:28:28,090
And then to see the humanity of Bruce

879
00:28:28,100 –> 00:28:29,140
Wayne, which

880
00:28:29,380 –> 00:28:32,090
Michael, Michael Keaton was really amazing

881
00:28:32,100 –> 00:28:32,740
in that role.

882
00:28:32,980 –> 00:28:33,980
He was astounding.

883
00:28:34,340 –> 00:28:36,930
He said, We need to create a portrayal of

884
00:28:36,940 –> 00:28:37,540
Bruce Wayne.

885
00:28:37,700 –> 00:28:40,010
driven to the point of being obsessed and

886
00:28:40,020 –> 00:28:42,890
psychotic so that audiences will believe,

887
00:28:42,900 –> 00:28:45,690
without laughing, will believe this is a

888
00:28:45,700 –> 00:28:47,930
guy who would put on a batsuit and go out

889
00:28:47,940 –> 00:28:49,140
and fight crime like this.

890
00:28:49,180 –> 00:28:51,290
And it was many years later, I was having

891
00:28:51,300 –> 00:28:53,380
lunch with Stan Lee in Los Angeles,

892
00:28:53,620 –> 00:28:55,220
and Stan said to me, You know, Michael,

893
00:28:55,300 –> 00:28:58,180
it’s only because of your 1989 Batman

894
00:28:58,420 –> 00:29:00,210
that there’s a Marvel Cinematic Universe.

895
00:29:00,220 –> 00:29:01,780
I said, Stan, what are you talking about?

896
00:29:02,460 –> 00:29:03,540
he said um

897
00:29:03,780 –> 00:29:04,340
the way

898
00:29:04,660 –> 00:29:06,740
Tim Burton came up with this idea

899
00:29:07,020 –> 00:29:09,650
of putting the entire focus on Bruce Wayne

900
00:29:09,660 –> 00:29:11,570
instead of Batman he said think about it

901
00:29:11,580 –> 00:29:14,090
Michael Iron Man the Iron Man movies they

902
00:29:14,100 –> 00:29:16,260
should all be entitled Tony Stark the

903
00:29:16,580 –> 00:29:18,570
Spider-Man movie should be called Peter

904
00:29:18,580 –> 00:29:20,020
Parker he said he said

905
00:29:20,620 –> 00:29:22,570
It’s because of Batman 1989.

906
00:29:22,580 –> 00:29:24,660
And I’ll jump for a second time.

907
00:29:24,980 –> 00:29:27,130
If you go to the next genius online,

908
00:29:27,140 –> 00:29:29,850
Christopher Nolan, when he started the Dark

909
00:29:29,860 –> 00:29:32,010
Knight trilogy, you know, this past week,

910
00:29:32,020 –> 00:29:33,930
we’ve been celebrating the 20th anniversary

911
00:29:33,940 –> 00:29:34,970
of Batman Begins.

912
00:29:34,980 –> 00:29:37,770
And when he did Batman Begins, I know

913
00:29:37,780 –> 00:29:39,370
firsthand, ’cause they told me

914
00:29:39,380 –> 00:29:41,850
specifically, the filmmakers who were

915
00:29:41,860 –> 00:29:45,130
pondering over what to do to revive James

916
00:29:45,140 –> 00:29:47,860
Bond as a franchise, what to do

917
00:29:48,100 –> 00:29:49,620
to revive Star Trek

918
00:29:49,860 –> 00:29:50,540
as a franchise,

919
00:29:50,980 –> 00:29:52,970
They all went to see Batman Begins, and

920
00:29:52,980 –> 00:29:53,300
they said, Oh,

921
00:29:54,180 –> 00:29:55,460
that’s what we need to do.

922
00:29:55,540 –> 00:29:56,900
Bond begins.

923
00:29:57,140 –> 00:29:58,580
Star Trek begins.

924
00:29:58,740 –> 00:30:00,580
So the impact of that…

925
00:30:01,180 –> 00:30:03,410
over the years has been enormous and

926
00:30:03,420 –> 00:30:04,810
usually goes under the radar.

927
00:30:04,820 –> 00:30:05,780
Interesting. It’s

928
00:30:06,420 –> 00:30:08,820
kind of like the prequel kind of thing.

929
00:30:08,980 –> 00:30:11,930
So can you tell how you did get them to

930
00:30:11,940 –> 00:30:14,330
find the green light, the first Batman? It

931
00:30:14,340 –> 00:30:15,700
was absolutely Tim Burton.

932
00:30:15,940 –> 00:30:18,170
They called me up at the studio and they

933
00:30:18,180 –> 00:30:20,090
said, We want you to see the fine cut of

934
00:30:20,100 –> 00:30:23,060
this new movie this young animator from

935
00:30:23,300 –> 00:30:24,410
Disney just did for us.

936
00:30:24,420 –> 00:30:25,210
It’s live action.

937
00:30:25,220 –> 00:30:27,370
So I went over there and I saw the fine cut

938
00:30:27,380 –> 00:30:28,490
of Pee-Wee’s Big Adventure.

939
00:30:28,500 –> 00:30:30,780
And I came in and I said, Guys, this is the

940
00:30:30,820 –> 00:30:32,420
great greatest combination,

941
00:30:32,660 –> 00:30:35,130
creatively, of direction and art direction

942
00:30:35,140 –> 00:30:35,900
I’ve ever seen.

943
00:30:35,940 –> 00:30:36,810
I’d love to meet him.

944
00:30:36,820 –> 00:30:38,370
So they set up three lunches for me with

945
00:30:38,380 –> 00:30:39,060
Tim, and

946
00:30:40,020 –> 00:30:42,500
my first lunch was primarily

947
00:30:42,740 –> 00:30:44,570
to indoctrinate him into the world of

948
00:30:44,580 –> 00:30:46,580
Batman, which he was not really familiar with.

949
00:30:47,460 –> 00:30:49,770
Goal number two, to keep him away from the

950
00:30:49,780 –> 00:30:51,620
campy, silly, stupid stuff.

951
00:30:51,700 –> 00:30:54,170
So I gave him from my collection, uh,

952
00:30:54,180 –> 00:30:54,900
reprints

953
00:30:55,260 –> 00:30:58,730
of the 1939, 40 Batman comics, the first

954
00:30:58,740 –> 00:31:00,900
Joker and Catwoman, the first Robin.

955
00:31:01,380 –> 00:31:04,580
I gave him comic books from the 70s

956
00:31:04,900 –> 00:31:08,210
where DC had returned Batman to his darker

957
00:31:08,220 –> 00:31:09,450
roots once again.

958
00:31:09,460 –> 00:31:11,730
And for the second meeting, he came back

959
00:31:11,740 –> 00:31:12,820
with a lot of questions.

960
00:31:12,900 –> 00:31:14,970
By the end of the third lunch, I said, as

961
00:31:14,980 –> 00:31:17,060
far as I’m concerned, this is, this is the guy.

962
00:31:17,180 –> 00:31:19,330
He’s got it and everybody there totally

963
00:31:19,340 –> 00:31:20,970
believed in him he had already done

964
00:31:20,980 –> 00:31:23,050
Beetlejuice now and they they knew what

965
00:31:23,060 –> 00:31:25,610
Michael Keaton was capable of I was still

966
00:31:25,620 –> 00:31:27,930
not so sure so they set up a screening

967
00:31:27,940 –> 00:31:30,500
ultimately of the rough cut of a movie

968
00:31:30,540 –> 00:31:31,700
called clean and sober

969
00:31:32,020 –> 00:31:33,500
so I could see Michael’s

970
00:31:33,860 –> 00:31:34,260
serious

971
00:31:34,580 –> 00:31:35,220
performance

972
00:31:35,620 –> 00:31:37,210
and then I walked out of there and I said I

973
00:31:37,220 –> 00:31:39,340
take it all back we also want to talk about

974
00:31:39,620 –> 00:31:41,780
The Boy Who Loved Batman turning into a

975
00:31:41,820 –> 00:31:42,620
Broadway show

976
00:31:42,900 –> 00:31:45,860
I’ve been in the movie TV business for 49 years

977
00:31:46,100 –> 00:31:47,860
all of a sudden I I find myself

978
00:31:48,500 –> 00:31:50,410
in the theater business, Broadway.

979
00:31:50,420 –> 00:31:51,770
It’s totally different.

980
00:31:51,780 –> 00:31:52,890
I mean, it’s totally different.

981
00:31:52,900 –> 00:31:53,860
And I’m partnered with

982
00:31:54,500 –> 00:31:56,730
Bob Nederlander, Nederlander Worldwide.

983
00:31:56,740 –> 00:31:58,410
You couldn’t ask for better partners in the

984
00:31:58,420 –> 00:31:59,130
world of theater.

985
00:31:59,140 –> 00:32:01,290
For the first time, probably in 35 years, I

986
00:32:01,300 –> 00:32:02,450
have butterflies in my stomach.

987
00:32:02,460 –> 00:32:02,930
That’s so fun.

988
00:32:02,940 –> 00:32:03,540
That’s so great.

989
00:32:03,620 –> 00:32:04,300
Which is it. Yeah.

990
00:32:04,500 –> 00:32:05,220
It’s a good feeling.

991
00:32:05,460 –> 00:32:06,820
It’s terrible and good at the same time.

992
00:32:07,060 –> 00:32:07,220
Yeah.

993
00:32:07,940 –> 00:32:09,860
I mean, they’re bringing to life my

994
00:32:10,180 –> 00:32:11,450
memoir, my story.

995
00:32:11,460 –> 00:32:12,500
So it’s,

996
00:32:13,300 –> 00:32:14,930
you know, at the end of the day, it’s about

997
00:32:14,940 –> 00:32:15,860
my parents.

998
00:32:16,300 –> 00:32:17,220
and my wife

999
00:32:17,620 –> 00:32:18,740
and my brother

1000
00:32:19,060 –> 00:32:20,180
and my friends

1001
00:32:20,420 –> 00:32:20,890
and Mrs.

1002
00:32:20,900 –> 00:32:21,850
Stiller and Mrs.

1003
00:32:21,860 –> 00:32:24,770
Friedman and everybody on the path who got

1004
00:32:24,780 –> 00:32:25,370
me there.

1005
00:32:25,380 –> 00:32:26,450
It’s surrealistic.

1006
00:32:26,460 –> 00:32:29,810
We did a six-week run in Tampa at the Straz

1007
00:32:29,820 –> 00:32:31,460
Center for the Performing Arts.

1008
00:32:31,700 –> 00:32:33,450
Got a standing ovation at every

1009
00:32:33,460 –> 00:32:34,250
performance.

1010
00:32:34,260 –> 00:32:35,780
It’s really, really quite

1011
00:32:36,020 –> 00:32:36,740
incredible.

1012
00:32:36,820 –> 00:32:39,370
How does it feel to see your life being

1013
00:32:39,380 –> 00:32:41,540
presented to you? It is

1014
00:32:41,780 –> 00:32:44,900
strange, to say the least, but it is based on

1015
00:32:45,140 –> 00:32:46,220
the memoir I wrote.

1016
00:32:46,420 –> 00:32:47,180
So, the

1017
00:32:47,460 –> 00:32:50,010
most incredible, weird part of the whole

1018
00:32:50,020 –> 00:32:52,100
thing was casting my parents

1019
00:32:52,420 –> 00:32:54,660
and having an opportunity– Okay.

1020
00:32:54,900 –> 00:32:56,970
Having an opportunity to bring them back to

1021
00:32:56,980 –> 00:32:58,580
life on the Broadway stage.

1022
00:32:59,460 –> 00:33:02,290
I mean, that is– I can’t even come up with

1023
00:33:02,300 –> 00:33:02,820
the words.

1024
00:33:03,380 –> 00:33:03,930
I really can’t.

1025
00:33:03,940 –> 00:33:06,290
I can imagine it would be just a whirlwind

1026
00:33:06,300 –> 00:33:09,140
of emotions and to cast them and then to

1027
00:33:09,540 –> 00:33:12,090
keep directing them on how to say things

1028
00:33:12,100 –> 00:33:12,930
and do things.

1029
00:33:12,940 –> 00:33:14,660
And I can imagine that would be

1030
00:33:15,140 –> 00:33:17,940
a monumental effort to keep it together.

1031
00:33:18,020 –> 00:33:20,170
Well, we have an award-winning director,

1032
00:33:20,180 –> 00:33:21,140
Jeff Calhoun,

1033
00:33:21,380 –> 00:33:24,170
who’s just done a fabulous job with the

1034
00:33:24,180 –> 00:33:26,410
cast and the production design.

1035
00:33:26,420 –> 00:33:28,730
Every element that’s gone into this, it’s

1036
00:33:28,740 –> 00:33:31,540
really been creative, innovative, and fun.

1037
00:33:32,140 –> 00:33:34,090
It’s going to be entertaining, but it also,

1038
00:33:34,100 –> 00:33:36,260
like, hopefully, like my memoir,

1039
00:33:36,500 –> 00:33:37,580
it’ll be motivational.

1040
00:33:38,500 –> 00:33:39,860
I want it to be motivational.

1041
00:33:40,260 –> 00:33:42,810
You have so many motivational moments in

1042
00:33:42,820 –> 00:33:45,340
your book that you share, and

1043
00:33:45,940 –> 00:33:46,820
I wrote down

1044
00:33:47,460 –> 00:33:48,330
a bunch of them.

1045
00:33:48,340 –> 00:33:50,740
You said there are three things that stuck out.

1046
00:33:51,380 –> 00:33:51,420
90%

1047
00:33:51,820 –> 00:33:54,530
of competition sits on their butts waiting

1048
00:33:54,540 –> 00:33:55,780
for the world to come to them.

1049
00:33:56,420 –> 00:33:58,370
So then your competition is only 10%, the

1050
00:33:58,380 –> 00:33:58,730
other 10%.

1051
00:33:58,740 –> 00:34:00,100
And then

1052
00:34:00,580 –> 00:34:02,810
the only way to succeed to make your own

1053
00:34:02,820 –> 00:34:04,890
luck and get your foot in the door was by

1054
00:34:04,900 –> 00:34:05,780
knocking on them,

1055
00:34:06,020 –> 00:34:07,970
having them slam in your face, picking

1056
00:34:07,980 –> 00:34:09,530
yourself up and doing that again.

1057
00:34:09,540 –> 00:34:10,020
And then.

1058
00:34:11,100 –> 00:34:12,170
Till your knuckles bleed.

1059
00:34:12,180 –> 00:34:12,660
And then

1060
00:34:12,980 –> 00:34:15,780
I also love this and I’ve heard it before.

1061
00:34:15,860 –> 00:34:17,620
Recently, somebody said this to me,

1062
00:34:18,180 –> 00:34:20,290
don’t believe when people say how bad your

1063
00:34:20,300 –> 00:34:22,180
ideas are and don’t believe.

1064
00:34:22,460 –> 00:34:23,860
when they say how good they are.

1065
00:34:23,940 –> 00:34:25,380
Just believe in yourself.

1066
00:34:25,460 –> 00:34:27,690
And I love that you, you have that

1067
00:34:27,700 –> 00:34:29,210
internally since you were little.

1068
00:34:29,220 –> 00:34:29,780
Like even

1069
00:34:30,180 –> 00:34:32,050
if you have, I would think having an older

1070
00:34:32,060 –> 00:34:34,090
brother who’s good at sports and good at

1071
00:34:34,100 –> 00:34:36,810
all these things, it could be demoralizing,

1072
00:34:36,820 –> 00:34:37,860
but instead

1073
00:34:38,260 –> 00:34:38,540
you

1074
00:34:38,820 –> 00:34:41,250
turn to what you were passionate about and

1075
00:34:41,260 –> 00:34:43,490
you went all in on your passion and doubled

1076
00:34:43,500 –> 00:34:44,820
down on who you are.

1077
00:34:44,980 –> 00:34:46,660
Well, that goes back to my mom now.

1078
00:34:46,980 –> 00:34:49,380
My dad was about passion, my mom

1079
00:34:49,460 –> 00:34:51,850
specifically about perseverance and

1080
00:34:51,860 –> 00:34:52,380
commitment.

1081
00:34:52,460 –> 00:34:54,740
Once you make a commitment, you stick to it.

1082
00:34:54,980 –> 00:34:57,620
And if it proves to be painful, I’m sorry.

1083
00:34:57,940 –> 00:34:59,690
You get to the other side.

1084
00:34:59,700 –> 00:35:01,930
That’s what you need to do to succeed.

1085
00:35:01,940 –> 00:35:04,500
And my brother and I both carry that with us

1086
00:35:04,820 –> 00:35:07,690
and has made a huge difference in our lives

1087
00:35:07,700 –> 00:35:10,100
and what we’ve each been able to achieve.

1088
00:35:10,260 –> 00:35:12,970
I’ve spoken at, I don’t know, 200 and some

1089
00:35:12,980 –> 00:35:15,380
odd colleges and universities around the world.

1090
00:35:15,620 –> 00:35:18,170
For now, really two generations, there has

1091
00:35:18,180 –> 00:35:20,060
been this weirdly pervasive

1092
00:35:20,260 –> 00:35:23,300
self-entitlement that is out there and

1093
00:35:23,540 –> 00:35:25,210
people that think the world owes them

1094
00:35:25,220 –> 00:35:27,130
something or the world is going to come to them.

1095
00:35:27,140 –> 00:35:30,250
And my message is, you know, you got to get

1096
00:35:30,260 –> 00:35:32,820
up off the couch and be proactive.

1097
00:35:32,900 –> 00:35:34,490
It’s just like you said, that’s the

1098
00:35:34,500 –> 00:35:37,380
starting point for making dreams come true.

1099
00:35:38,100 –> 00:35:39,300
There’s no other way to do it.

1100
00:35:39,540 –> 00:35:40,500
Is it quick? No.

1101
00:35:40,580 –> 00:35:41,940
Is it easy? No.

1102
00:35:42,220 –> 00:35:44,020
My God, the rejections. I have

1103
00:35:44,540 –> 00:35:46,820
closet filled with rejection slips.

1104
00:35:46,980 –> 00:35:49,650
So what do you do? When the door slams in

1105
00:35:49,660 –> 00:35:51,530
your face, you have two choices.

1106
00:35:51,540 –> 00:35:52,580
You go home and cry,

1107
00:35:53,540 –> 00:35:55,250
or you dust yourself off and go back and

1108
00:35:55,260 –> 00:35:55,770
knock again.

1109
00:35:55,780 –> 00:35:57,130
That’s the only choice you have.

1110
00:35:57,140 –> 00:35:59,210
And if there’s anything I’ve learned in

1111
00:35:59,220 –> 00:36:01,460
life, it’s probably this at this point.

1112
00:36:01,540 –> 00:36:04,180
To me, life is a series of choices.

1113
00:36:04,260 –> 00:36:06,770
Your life is about what you choose to do or

1114
00:36:06,780 –> 00:36:08,260
what you choose not to do.

1115
00:36:08,340 –> 00:36:10,810
It’s about what you choose to say or what

1116
00:36:10,820 –> 00:36:13,090
you choose not to say, and every one of

1117
00:36:13,100 –> 00:36:14,260
those has consequences.

1118
00:36:14,580 –> 00:36:16,330
And that’s how I’ve tried to hold the

1119
00:36:16,340 –> 00:36:17,130
course throughout my life.

1120
00:36:17,140 –> 00:36:18,500
That can be paralyzing though.

1121
00:36:18,580 –> 00:36:20,100
I think for some people, you

1122
00:36:20,420 –> 00:36:22,730
know, like, oh my God, you know, to make

1123
00:36:22,740 –> 00:36:23,380
the decision.

1124
00:36:23,460 –> 00:36:26,410
How do you know when to stop following a

1125
00:36:26,420 –> 00:36:27,620
pursuit? You know,

1126
00:36:28,020 –> 00:36:28,820
I wouldn’t know to

1127
00:36:29,060 –> 00:36:32,180
stick to it for 10 years to get a film made.

1128
00:36:32,260 –> 00:36:34,980
You have also something genetically,

1129
00:36:35,220 –> 00:36:37,770
nature and nurture, some cocktail inside of

1130
00:36:37,780 –> 00:36:39,940
you also that allowed you.

1131
00:36:40,540 –> 00:36:41,930
It’s a magic also.

1132
00:36:41,940 –> 00:36:44,180
I don’t think it’s only just perseverance.

1133
00:36:44,260 –> 00:36:44,540
Well, all

1134
00:36:44,980 –> 00:36:45,180
right.

1135
00:36:45,300 –> 00:36:48,450
So I see it as having to do with age as well.

1136
00:36:48,460 –> 00:36:51,810
When you are in college, you cannot make a

1137
00:36:51,820 –> 00:36:52,660
wrong move.

1138
00:36:53,060 –> 00:36:56,460
You cannot make a mistake by moving to LA

1139
00:36:56,660 –> 00:36:58,380
to try to get into business or moving to

1140
00:36:58,420 –> 00:37:00,500
New York or moving to Nashville or Chicago.

1141
00:37:01,140 –> 00:37:02,820
You have time on your hands.

1142
00:37:03,300 –> 00:37:04,650
And everything you’re doing, you’re

1143
00:37:04,660 –> 00:37:06,100
learning something important.

1144
00:37:06,340 –> 00:37:08,090
And it’s just as important to learn what

1145
00:37:08,100 –> 00:37:08,900
you don’t like

1146
00:37:09,220 –> 00:37:10,380
as what you do like.

1147
00:37:10,980 –> 00:37:12,490
And you’re not losing time.

1148
00:37:12,500 –> 00:37:15,010
It is a positive learning experience and

1149
00:37:15,020 –> 00:37:16,820
you have X number of years

1150
00:37:17,260 –> 00:37:19,450
to go down this path, try that path, that

1151
00:37:19,460 –> 00:37:21,700
one, or come home and try something else,

1152
00:37:21,740 –> 00:37:23,380
and you haven’t lost a damn thing.

1153
00:37:23,460 –> 00:37:26,020
Now, it’s different once you have a family,

1154
00:37:26,340 –> 00:37:26,820
and I

1155
00:37:27,300 –> 00:37:29,010
talk about this from experience, believe

1156
00:37:29,020 –> 00:37:31,130
me, during those 10 years it took me to get

1157
00:37:31,140 –> 00:37:33,210
Batman made, not knowing how I was going to

1158
00:37:33,220 –> 00:37:35,610
pay my bills the following week, having to

1159
00:37:35,620 –> 00:37:37,770
keep a roof over my family’s head and food

1160
00:37:37,780 –> 00:37:39,690
on the table, what do you do? Well, the

1161
00:37:39,700 –> 00:37:41,290
answer is you do virtually everything you

1162
00:37:41,300 –> 00:37:43,220
can possibly do, but at

1163
00:37:43,460 –> 00:37:45,930
a certain moment in time, you have to look

1164
00:37:45,940 –> 00:37:47,060
at yourself in the mirror.

1165
00:37:47,380 –> 00:37:48,260
and determine,

1166
00:37:48,500 –> 00:37:50,730
okay, I gave it my best shot.

1167
00:37:50,740 –> 00:37:52,970
Now I have to, this is why I went to law

1168
00:37:52,980 –> 00:37:53,380
school.

1169
00:37:53,540 –> 00:37:55,300
So I’d have something to fall back on.

1170
00:37:55,380 –> 00:37:56,770
Now it’s time for me to do that.

1171
00:37:56,780 –> 00:37:57,780
Hang on a second. Sure.

1172
00:37:58,260 –> 00:38:00,340
This is the last letter my dad sent to me.

1173
00:38:00,420 –> 00:38:00,900
Michael,

1174
00:38:01,140 –> 00:38:04,090
all that is expected of a person is that he

1175
00:38:04,100 –> 00:38:05,060
do his best.

1176
00:38:05,220 –> 00:38:05,970
Don’t panic.

1177
00:38:05,980 –> 00:38:08,340
Keep a cool head and whatever the outcome,

1178
00:38:08,420 –> 00:38:10,810
at least you can say I tried real hard.

1179
00:38:10,820 –> 00:38:11,540
That’s it.

1180
00:38:11,620 –> 00:38:14,370
It’s not really about achieving this goal

1181
00:38:14,380 –> 00:38:15,050
or that goal.

1182
00:38:15,060 –> 00:38:17,010
It’s about at the end of the day, being

1183
00:38:17,020 –> 00:38:18,260
able look in a mirror and said,

1184
00:38:18,500 –> 00:38:19,540
I tried it

1185
00:38:19,860 –> 00:38:20,970
as hard as I could.

1186
00:38:20,980 –> 00:38:22,900
I did everything I could. And

1187
00:38:23,220 –> 00:38:25,210
you got to be proud of what you look at in

1188
00:38:25,220 –> 00:38:25,620
the mirror.

1189
00:38:26,340 –> 00:38:28,330
And if that means it’s now time to go back

1190
00:38:28,340 –> 00:38:29,220
and be a lawyer

1191
00:38:29,540 –> 00:38:30,900
or whatever it might be,

1192
00:38:31,300 –> 00:38:32,100
so be it.

1193
00:38:32,260 –> 00:38:34,180
But you know, in your heart of hearts, you

1194
00:38:34,260 –> 00:38:35,780
gave it everything you had.

1195
00:38:36,180 –> 00:38:36,970
That’s what counts.

1196
00:38:36,980 –> 00:38:38,500
Fantastic life advice.

1197
00:38:38,740 –> 00:38:39,050
It is.

1198
00:38:39,060 –> 00:38:40,410
It’s incredible advice.

1199
00:38:40,420 –> 00:38:43,140
And I feel like that’s the premise of this

1200
00:38:43,180 –> 00:38:45,140
Broadway show, your book.

1201
00:38:45,740 –> 00:38:48,410
And everything seems to be that message is

1202
00:38:48,420 –> 00:38:49,940
just give it your all.

1203
00:38:50,020 –> 00:38:52,500
Well, the lowest point of my Batman career

1204
00:38:52,580 –> 00:38:55,780
was when the studio at that time

1205
00:38:56,020 –> 00:38:59,530
became so enamored of Happy Meals and toys.

1206
00:38:59,540 –> 00:39:02,250
And as a result, we had things like Batman

1207
00:39:02,260 –> 00:39:02,900
and Robin,

1208
00:39:03,140 –> 00:39:06,340
which was like the 66 TV series Redux,

1209
00:39:06,500 –> 00:39:07,210
Catwoman.

1210
00:39:07,220 –> 00:39:09,770
And I was just at the lowest point of my

1211
00:39:09,780 –> 00:39:10,340
career.

1212
00:39:10,900 –> 00:39:12,420
I knew this was all wrong.

1213
00:39:12,500 –> 00:39:14,570
And Ben said to me, and Ben was my dad’s

1214
00:39:14,580 –> 00:39:16,580
age and a legend in in the movie business.

1215
00:39:16,660 –> 00:39:17,700
Ben said to me,

1216
00:39:17,940 –> 00:39:20,410
You know, Michael, when the roof is falling

1217
00:39:20,420 –> 00:39:22,420
in on you and everything is going south,

1218
00:39:22,460 –> 00:39:24,810
what you need to do is say, This is the

1219
00:39:24,820 –> 00:39:26,690
greatest thing that could have happened to

1220
00:39:26,700 –> 00:39:27,940
me because…

1221
00:39:28,500 –> 00:39:29,850
And then fill in the blank.

1222
00:39:29,860 –> 00:39:31,050
So I said, Come on, Ben.

1223
00:39:31,060 –> 00:39:32,490
He goes, I’m telling you, it works.

1224
00:39:32,500 –> 00:39:34,020
It works every time. Say it.

1225
00:39:34,100 –> 00:39:36,210
So I said, Okay, this is the greatest thing

1226
00:39:36,220 –> 00:39:38,020
that could have ever happened to me

1227
00:39:38,500 –> 00:39:39,700
because

1228
00:39:40,180 –> 00:39:41,060
they’re going to get

1229
00:39:41,300 –> 00:39:42,020
bitten on the

1230
00:39:42,660 –> 00:39:43,210
by this.

1231
00:39:43,220 –> 00:39:46,330
And as a result, the next time around,

1232
00:39:46,340 –> 00:39:48,970
whoever’s running things will give me what

1233
00:39:48,980 –> 00:39:51,940
I want, will be the dark and serious

1234
00:39:51,980 –> 00:39:52,740
Batman.

1235
00:39:53,540 –> 00:39:54,020
that I

1236
00:39:54,420 –> 00:39:54,900
want.

1237
00:39:54,980 –> 00:39:58,820
Well, that horrible moment wound up leading

1238
00:39:58,900 –> 00:40:01,290
to the introduction of Christopher Nolan

1239
00:40:01,300 –> 00:40:03,610
into the Batman universe, which has never

1240
00:40:03,620 –> 00:40:04,660
been the same since.

1241
00:40:04,820 –> 00:40:07,690
He literally elevated the comic book movie

1242
00:40:07,700 –> 00:40:09,620
with Batman Begins in The Dark Knight.

1243
00:40:09,740 –> 00:40:12,170
When you walk out of one of his movies, you

1244
00:40:12,180 –> 00:40:13,770
didn’t have to say, That was a great comic

1245
00:40:13,780 –> 00:40:14,330
book movie.

1246
00:40:14,340 –> 00:40:16,740
You could really just say, That was a great film.

1247
00:40:16,900 –> 00:40:17,410
You’re a legend.

1248
00:40:17,420 –> 00:40:17,770
legend.

1249
00:40:17,780 –> 00:40:21,210
You really and truly are a legend and it is

1250
00:40:21,220 –> 00:40:23,210
an incredible honor to talk to you and have

1251
00:40:23,220 –> 00:40:25,700
this time to speak with you because

1252
00:40:26,620 –> 00:40:28,260
what you have done for

1253
00:40:28,500 –> 00:40:29,660
the Batman universe

1254
00:40:29,900 –> 00:40:32,810
and comics and everything, but for film and

1255
00:40:32,820 –> 00:40:35,610
also for New Jersey, it’s incredible the

1256
00:40:35,620 –> 00:40:39,060
contributions that your life has made to our

1257
00:40:39,540 –> 00:40:40,450
universe. Yes.

1258
00:40:40,460 –> 00:40:42,210
When I was writing the memoir, I didn’t

1259
00:40:42,220 –> 00:40:42,740
know how to end it.

1260
00:40:42,860 –> 00:40:44,890
I didn’t know where to end it and it

1261
00:40:44,900 –> 00:40:47,300
suddenly became very crystal clear.

1262
00:40:48,340 –> 00:40:50,570
Around the time of The Dark Knight being

1263
00:40:50,580 –> 00:40:53,090
out, I got a call from a colonel at West

1264
00:40:53,100 –> 00:40:56,010
Point, and he said, Our cadets every year

1265
00:40:56,020 –> 00:40:58,010
have a Cadet’s Choice Award, and they

1266
00:40:58,020 –> 00:41:00,860
choose someone who best represents the

1267
00:41:00,900 –> 00:41:02,050
honor of West Point.

1268
00:41:02,060 –> 00:41:04,660
And this year, they voted Batman: The Dark

1269
00:41:04,740 –> 00:41:05,050
Knight.

1270
00:41:05,060 –> 00:41:07,290
Would you consider coming up and accepting

1271
00:41:07,300 –> 00:41:09,770
this award? And speaking to our cadets,

1272
00:41:09,780 –> 00:41:11,540
there’s 4,500 cadets.

1273
00:41:12,020 –> 00:41:12,570
at lunch.

1274
00:41:12,580 –> 00:41:14,810
So I said, I would be absolutely honored to

1275
00:41:14,820 –> 00:41:15,300
do that.

1276
00:41:15,460 –> 00:41:16,730
We went up to West Point.

1277
00:41:16,740 –> 00:41:18,890
They take us into the dining hall, which

1278
00:41:18,900 –> 00:41:20,900
looked like the set from Harry Potter, all

1279
00:41:21,140 –> 00:41:24,010
stone, vaulted ceilings, flags, coming

1280
00:41:24,020 –> 00:41:27,050
together in a V with a stone balcony.

1281
00:41:27,060 –> 00:41:29,620
And he’s taking me up the stone balcony and

1282
00:41:29,780 –> 00:41:31,610
all the cadets are standing at attention at

1283
00:41:31,620 –> 00:41:32,330
their tables.

1284
00:41:32,340 –> 00:41:32,980
And I said, well,

1285
00:41:33,780 –> 00:41:35,210
You didn’t tell me how long you’d like me

1286
00:41:35,220 –> 00:41:35,770
to speak.

1287
00:41:35,780 –> 00:41:36,770
I can do a half hour.

1288
00:41:36,780 –> 00:41:37,770
I can do 40 minutes.

1289
00:41:37,780 –> 00:41:38,660
We can do Q&A.

1290
00:41:39,140 –> 00:41:40,420
He said, Oh, I didn’t tell you.

1291
00:41:40,500 –> 00:41:42,530
The cadets launch is only 15 minutes.

1292
00:41:42,540 –> 00:41:44,650
So I’m going to present you with the award

1293
00:41:44,660 –> 00:41:47,100
and you can speak for three minutes.

1294
00:41:47,540 –> 00:41:50,090
Literally, he hands me the award and hands

1295
00:41:50,100 –> 00:41:50,980
me the microphone.

1296
00:41:51,060 –> 00:41:53,250
And now I’m standing in front of 4,500

1297
00:41:53,260 –> 00:41:53,780
cadets.

1298
00:41:53,940 –> 00:41:55,700
So I said, Cadets of West Point.

1299
00:41:55,820 –> 00:41:58,170
When Bruce Wayne was a young boy, he saw

1300
00:41:58,180 –> 00:42:01,050
his parents murdered before his eyes on a

1301
00:42:01,060 –> 00:42:03,420
concrete altar of blood on the streets of God.

1302
00:42:03,500 –> 00:42:04,180
Lotham City.

1303
00:42:04,980 –> 00:42:07,450
At that moment, sacrificing his childhood,

1304
00:42:07,460 –> 00:42:09,770
he swore a vow that he would get the bad

1305
00:42:09,780 –> 00:42:11,770
guy who did this and spend the rest of his

1306
00:42:11,780 –> 00:42:13,620
life pursuing all the bad guys,

1307
00:42:14,100 –> 00:42:15,690
even if he had to walk through hell for the

1308
00:42:15,700 –> 00:42:16,660
rest of his life.

1309
00:42:16,820 –> 00:42:19,930
In doing this, he became an urban warrior.

1310
00:42:19,940 –> 00:42:21,060
He became

1311
00:42:21,460 –> 00:42:22,090
a legend.

1312
00:42:22,100 –> 00:42:23,730
He became the Dark Knight.

1313
00:42:23,740 –> 00:42:25,940
He said, Cadets of West Point, you

1314
00:42:26,820 –> 00:42:27,620
are Batman.

1315
00:42:29,140 –> 00:42:29,620
That was it.

1316
00:42:30,660 –> 00:42:31,300
And they

1317
00:42:31,540 –> 00:42:31,820
erupted.

1318
00:42:32,820 –> 00:42:36,090
They started roaring and jumping and

1319
00:42:36,100 –> 00:42:38,330
getting on the chairs, and it went on for a

1320
00:42:38,340 –> 00:42:39,330
number of minutes.

1321
00:42:39,340 –> 00:42:41,700
I still get the chills relating this.

1322
00:42:41,780 –> 00:42:43,300
And that wasn’t the best moment.

1323
00:42:43,380 –> 00:42:45,610
The best moment came one week later at my

1324
00:42:45,620 –> 00:42:47,530
office, and I opened the mail, and there’s

1325
00:42:47,540 –> 00:42:49,490
a letter from a woman I do not know, and

1326
00:42:49,500 –> 00:42:50,330
she says, Dear Mr.

1327
00:42:50,340 –> 00:42:51,690
Uselin, you don’t know me.

1328
00:42:51,700 –> 00:42:53,690
I am the mother of one of the cadets at

1329
00:42:53,700 –> 00:42:56,340
West Point to whom you spoke last week.

1330
00:42:56,500 –> 00:42:58,140
I don’t know if you understand the

1331
00:42:58,180 –> 00:43:00,900
seriousness of this, but our families

1332
00:43:01,500 –> 00:43:03,970
are dealing with the fact that our kids are

1333
00:43:03,980 –> 00:43:07,380
all going off to Iraq and Afghanistan

1334
00:43:07,620 –> 00:43:10,820
next month, and you have now given them

1335
00:43:11,060 –> 00:43:12,100
a calling card.

1336
00:43:12,180 –> 00:43:13,700
They are walking across

1337
00:43:14,020 –> 00:43:16,370
campus, high-fiving each other, bouncing

1338
00:43:16,380 –> 00:43:19,210
off each other’s chest, going, I am Batman.

1339
00:43:19,220 –> 00:43:20,820
You are Batman. She

1340
00:43:21,540 –> 00:43:23,220
said, This is a calling card.

1341
00:43:23,300 –> 00:43:26,530
And in years to come, no matter where on

1342
00:43:26,540 –> 00:43:28,810
what foreign battlefield they may encounter

1343
00:43:28,820 –> 00:43:29,700
each other again,

1344
00:43:30,140 –> 00:43:32,490
They will always have this, and I can’t

1345
00:43:32,500 –> 00:43:33,700
thank you enough for that.

1346
00:43:34,820 –> 00:43:36,580
And that was it for me. I mean,

1347
00:43:36,820 –> 00:43:38,570
that’s the pinnacle of what you could

1348
00:43:38,580 –> 00:43:40,900
possibly dream of accomplishing or the

1349
00:43:40,980 –> 00:43:42,980
impact you ever dream of having.

1350
00:43:43,140 –> 00:43:45,290
And it sets everything in proper

1351
00:43:45,300 –> 00:43:46,100
perspective.

1352
00:43:46,180 –> 00:43:48,170
Yeah, it’s only a movie, but it’s not

1353
00:43:48,180 –> 00:43:49,930
always just about box office.

1354
00:43:49,940 –> 00:43:52,330
It can also be about things far, far

1355
00:43:52,340 –> 00:43:53,980
greater and more important than that.

1356
00:43:54,020 –> 00:43:56,050
And then I realized, Okay, I have the

1357
00:43:56,060 –> 00:43:56,900
ending for my book.

1358
00:43:57,500 –> 00:43:57,620
Yeah,

1359
00:43:58,260 –> 00:44:00,060
I recommend the book to everyone

1360
00:44:00,580 –> 00:44:02,970
to go see your upcoming Broadway show.

1361
00:44:02,980 –> 00:44:05,490
And of course, go through all of the films

1362
00:44:05,500 –> 00:44:06,340
that you’ve done again.

1363
00:44:06,420 –> 00:44:08,180
It’s been an honor to talk with you.

1364
00:44:08,500 –> 00:44:10,570
And we’re looking forward to seeing what

1365
00:44:10,580 –> 00:44:11,290
you’re up to next.

1366
00:44:11,300 –> 00:44:12,620
I’m sure besides the

1367
00:44:12,980 –> 00:44:15,130
Broadway show, there’s probably a few other

1368
00:44:15,140 –> 00:44:16,890
things that we’ll be seeing come out that

1369
00:44:16,900 –> 00:44:18,100
you’re attached to.

1370
00:44:18,500 –> 00:44:19,620
And we look forward to that.

1371
00:44:19,780 –> 00:44:21,050
Thank you guys so much.

1372
00:44:21,060 –> 00:44:23,610
And especially important to me to be able

1373
00:44:23,620 –> 00:44:26,170
to reach out and speak to my fellow

1374
00:44:26,180 –> 00:44:26,820
Jerseyans.

1375
00:44:26,900 –> 00:44:27,460
And that’s

1376
00:44:27,700 –> 00:44:27,940
cool.

1377
00:44:27,980 –> 00:44:29,930
Okay, we ask everybody this, so we need to

1378
00:44:29,940 –> 00:44:31,540
ask and it’s going to be hard for you.

1379
00:44:31,700 –> 00:44:33,540
Tell us something that you love,

1380
00:44:33,940 –> 00:44:37,130
person, place, or thing, or concept about

1381
00:44:37,140 –> 00:44:37,780
New Jersey.

1382
00:44:37,860 –> 00:44:38,410
Attitude.

1383
00:44:38,420 –> 00:44:40,020
It’s the magic of

1384
00:44:40,660 –> 00:44:44,010
being grounded and street smart, respecting

1385
00:44:44,020 –> 00:44:47,130
family first, respecting food, especially

1386
00:44:47,140 –> 00:44:48,340
pizza, and

1387
00:44:48,980 –> 00:44:52,020
the art of driving with your fingers. Wait,

1388
00:44:52,740 –> 00:44:54,540
you’re going to have to explain that last

1389
00:44:54,620 –> 00:44:55,460
one for me.

1390
00:44:55,620 –> 00:44:57,620
Obviously, you’ve never been on a highway

1391
00:44:57,700 –> 00:44:59,220
being cut off by Jersey drivers.

1392
00:45:00,180 –> 00:45:00,820
No, I

1393
00:45:01,060 –> 00:45:01,490
get it.

1394
00:45:01,500 –> 00:45:04,010
They don’t drive that way in Los Angeles,

1395
00:45:04,020 –> 00:45:05,690
but they certainly do in New Jersey.

1396
00:45:05,700 –> 00:45:08,570
Also, one last thing is being proudly

1397
00:45:08,580 –> 00:45:10,500
identifiable by your exit number.

1398
00:45:11,300 –> 00:45:11,820
That’s true.

1399
00:45:12,100 –> 00:45:13,700
That is my red badge of courage.

1400
00:45:15,420 –> 00:45:18,100
enjoyed every minute of this interview and

1401
00:45:18,180 –> 00:45:20,010
really appreciate you coming on and sharing

1402
00:45:20,020 –> 00:45:22,650
these stories with us and everything that you do.

1403
00:45:22,660 –> 00:45:25,860
And thank you so much for just joining us here.

1404
00:45:26,100 –> 00:45:27,450
I very much appreciate it.

1405
00:45:27,460 –> 00:45:28,340
As we say

1406
00:45:28,580 –> 00:45:30,890
out in La La Land, let’s do lunch.

1407
00:45:30,900 –> 00:45:32,490
Have your people call my people.

1408
00:45:32,500 –> 00:45:33,700
I would love to do lunch.

1409
00:45:33,860 –> 00:45:34,340
Is it the

1410
00:45:36,060 –> 00:45:38,730
which they say doesn’t materialize? Or is

1411
00:45:38,740 –> 00:45:39,220
it the New

1412
00:45:39,620 –> 00:45:41,690
Jersey lunch that happens within a couple

1413
00:45:41,700 –> 00:45:42,140
of days?

1414
00:45:42,660 –> 00:45:44,890
It’s the New Jersey lunch, which actually

1415
00:45:44,900 –> 00:45:48,290
happens and is predicated on your sitting

1416
00:45:48,300 –> 00:45:50,340
at lunch with your back against the wall at the

1417
00:45:50,660 –> 00:45:51,140
table.

1418
00:45:51,380 –> 00:45:52,580
Okay, we’re in.

1419
00:45:52,820 –> 00:45:53,300
Have a good

1420
00:45:53,580 –> 00:45:54,020
day. Bye.

1421
00:45:54,500 –> 00:45:54,820
See ya.

1422
00:45:55,060 –> 00:45:55,620
Bye.

1423
00:45:55,820 –> 00:45:56,210
Thanks.

The Rise of New Jersey’s Film Industry

During the interview, Michael Uslan — Chairman of the New Jersey Motion Picture and Television Commission — offered an insider’s view on the state’s meteoric rise in film and television production. What once lagged behind Hollywood is now booming with purpose and pride.

“I think the number one success story in the entire industry right now is New Jersey,”

Uslan told us. With major projects from Netflix, Lionsgate, and others now building permanent studios across the state — including Fort Monmouth and Bayonne — New Jersey has become a major player in national film production. “Every year significantly tops the year before,” he said, adding that Hollywood is “becoming more a state of mind than a physical place.”

A big part of this growth comes from the state’s generous tax incentives, including a diversity bonus for productions that meet inclusive hiring benchmarks. “We want diversity. We want people to come here and be a part of this with us,” Uslan explained, noting that the state offers up to an additional 5% credit for qualifying cast and crew.

Just a few years ago, the Meadowlands Arena sat empty. Within 30 days of the film tax credit’s reinstatement, it was transformed into a thriving TV production hub. Today, it’s home to multiple series — a sign of how quickly and strategically New Jersey has built itself into Hollywood East.

Beyond the economics, Uslan made clear: this is about identity. “We bill ourselves as the most diverse state in the union. And we’re proud of who we are. That’s one of the reasons we’re being so successful.”

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