# Swell AI Transcript: Craig Coffee 100 Episode - 11:25:24, 10.02 AM.mp3 Rachel: Hi, Janette. Hi, Rachel. So it is our 100th episode. I'm so proud of us. Rachel: Yes, I can't believe that we've hit 100 episodes. And we have somebody returning for this episode. He's a he's kind of a hotshot. I mean, have you guys ever seen Hello? Have you ever seen method? So on all of its products? Have you guys ever seen eos? And now Happy, happy. He is the brains behind all of this. He has created all these wonderful brands that we're all so familiar with. You can get them at Target always and good quality at an affordable price. And just beautifully, what did he use the word? Buda utility, utility, utility, utility. He's like, I think I might be making that up. But yes, he is good at making other words. Yes. Utility, yeah. The last time it was FOMO. Oh, no. It was fear of not trying. Rachel: Yeah. And you can listen to the original episode that we did about a year ago with him. And he was saying he had something brewing. You know what? Janette: Did he say that? Did he say brewing? Rachel: He didn't say brewing. SPEAKER_01: I'm saying brewing. Rachel: So now we're following up with him because it's launched. It's live. It's a coffee and it's a partnership with Robert Downey Jr. and also with NAMI, the National Alliance on Mental Illness. It is fascinating interview. We get to hear so many cool things about his whole process, again, about being an entrepreneur, how he's come up with all the ideas. And Robert Downey Jr. was really the taste tester, super tester, super taster, he called him, to get the brews right. Janette: So that's right. It's a great interview. He tells a lot of stories and we tasted it. It's smooth. Good. Yeah, it's smooth. Very good. So without further ado, here is our interview with Craig Dubitsky. Hello. SPEAKER_01: How's everyone doing? Rachel: We're good. We're good. Coming back on. Craig Dubitsky: Oh, please. Thanks for having me. Janette: We're really happy to have you back for our 100th episode. Craig Dubitsky: Incredible. Congratulations. That's a big deal. Janette: Thank you. It is. We have you on to talk about your new launch or about it's about nine months old, I believe of happy. Well, we have it. Craig Dubitsky: No way. dark and medium roast people different. Janette: And I have my smelling salt roast in my cup. Nice for a happy mug. Rachel's mad at me because I haven't gotten her a loss branded mug yet. Yeah. Rachel: Oh, brewing improved. Nice. Janette: Very good. You're the best at all of this. So for our listeners, our TV, our video YouTube watchers, I have brought out. Craig Dubitsky: Nice. Janette: I brought out hello. Craig Dubitsky: Oh my word. Look at us. We're twinning. Twinning is winning. Janette: Okay. And then I have brought a very interesting change of product, EOS, which I could not find the circular bomb. Craig Dubitsky: Oh, I can tell you so many stories about that stick. SPEAKER_01: I mean, yeah, I love that thing. Janette: All of these incredible products, you are part of either the master creator of them. But one thing that we do notice is that anyone can tell is that the lowercase letter is in all of these. And Rachel wants to know something about a potential change given our political environment. Rachel: Yes, if this is all wonderful and happy, right? And soothing. But if we're in a totalitarian regime, would you change it to all caps? Craig Dubitsky: Like, well, you know, all caps in modern digital. Yeah. It's yelling. It's yelling. Right. So we might be decrying our need for happiness if we were to put it in all caps. Rachel: I feel like it would definitely wake me up and be like, OK, maybe this will help me feel better today. It's yelling at me to have happy in my life. Craig Dubitsky: I think, you know, no matter where you fall on this very interesting political spectrum. Yeah. Happiness is still like all allowed to be happy. Yes. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, I believe. Rachel: Yes. Janette: I believe it's still in there. It would be very funny for you to just do a temporary, you know, limited edition, all Rachel: But we do want to know the origin story. I mean, when we first had you on, it was so awesome to hear about your background and being a serial entrepreneur. Oh, one other thing about the Happy Packaging, dear to my heart, is the UPC symbol. Because my dad was part of that, inventing that and the laser scanner at Symbol Technologies. I love seeing the different shape is amazing. Janette: Yeah, it's a it's a shape of people might see on your mug. It's a coffee mug. Craig Dubitsky: It is a coffee mug. Yes. And we have canned products. And it's probably a little hard to tell that I'm a canned product. It's it's a can. It's a can. Janette: Yeah. Just a subtle, subtle, subtle nod. Craig Dubitsky: You see it if you don't see. Okay. Rachel: Always trying to make the barcode look nice on a package. Craig Dubitsky: Everything communicates, right? So it's all an opportunity to do a little sum sum with it. Janette: Well, we want to talk about the packaging for sure, because I think it's important to understand it. But we want to know first, as Rachel said, the background. For our listeners, we've read it. What is the background? And how did this start? And how did Robert Downey Jr. get involved in this? Craig Dubitsky: Pretty amazing story. So let's see how far back should we go? So I was never a coffee drinker ever, like not even a sip, like zero. Rachel: Do you have any caffeine, like tea or Coke? Yeah. Craig Dubitsky: I'm not anti-caffeine. I'm just, I think as a kid, and this is me trying to remember why, where, and when didn't fall in love with coffee. I think as a kid, I might've been given what I thought was chocolate ice cream. And I thought it was coffee ice cream and I went like, yeah. And so I said, oh, that's coffee. So I think I always associated this moment where I was expecting something more like chocolate and it was not. And I think that for me became coffee and it was like no interest. And the other thing is everyone I knew that was really into coffee was very addicted To coffee like they needed coffee and I think that notion of meeting things. Was always a little interesting to me and I was like, you know, I don't know, but I also think just like being free of anything that appeared to be an encumbrance was a young person kind of interesting. So I was not a coffee person. And note, I'm using past tense because now I'm most certainly very obsessed with all things coffee. Janette: Are you addicted too? Do you have to have it? Moderate, moderate user. Craig Dubitsky: Well, I'm very sort of like, you know, I go to tastings and cuppings and things, but I'm not, I'm by no means a coffee expert, savant, lover, super curious coffee person. I'm a curious person, but about everything and coffee is now my realm of stuff I'm curious about. and how people use it and interact with it and love it and make it part of their life. I was asked by a major retailer if I would consider helping them with something that they were working on. And I said, absolutely. And you can't pay me. I'm not a consultant. And I'm just pleased as punch you think of me as a potential thought partner. And they said, hey, you're here and we really like how you think. Would you mind walking the stores with some of our merchants. And I'm like, that's my favorite thing. The store is like the museum. It's an art gallery to me. So we walk around the store in all these different categories. And one of the folks I was with was a coffee buyer. We're standing in front of the coffee set. And I just started kind of saying things that I thought were to me kind of obvious about coffee as a non coffee drinker. I had a little cup of coffee at this point. So I'm just going off on all these things that I see in the aisle. Janette: Things that you think need to change. Craig Dubitsky: The packaging, the messaging, the packaging, the visual vocabulary, like everything. And this person goes, that's really interesting. Like I've never bought About that that way and do you think you can help me visualize a little bit of like what you're talking about or like what something could be that's a little different and better and i'm like yeah sure that's like my you know another. Pardon the pun but like a happy place for me so i'm like sure i start playing around my ipad and i have an apple pencil and i'm just making notes and coming up with things and i love names and naming. And I go, you know, I'm back with this retailer and I get a ping. Hey, I'm the new coffee buyer. And I heard you blew my predecessor's mind. Could we meet? And I heard you might have some ideas. So I start showing these things I kind of rendered up on my iPad. And this buyer goes like, this is amazing. When could you ship this? And I'm like, when can I ship what? Like my iPad? What do you mean? And he's like, no, we know you. You're an approved vendor. You know how to ship, you know how to make things, you know. Right, right. Like when, you know, we sell a lot of coffee, like, and I said, Well, you know, how many doors would you want to test something in the guys like, I want all the doors. I said, Well, how many skews would you want? Like, he's like, you're not paying attention. I want all the skews. Like, when could you ship? So that sort of became this not so subtle. Yeah. Maybe there was something interesting here. So the world is amazing and very small and very magical. And I really think that truly. And I was talking with a friend of mine and he's like, you know, that like you're a part of this, you know, there's a fund and I'm part of this fund. And they're like, you know, we're, we're investors in the largest vertically integrated coffee roaster in the world. Right. Like, you know that. Right. And I'm like, Janette: Oh, you're like, oh, I'm connected. And I didn't realize how connected I was. Craig Dubitsky: I forgot about that. That's pretty cool. So then all of a sudden, I could talk with people that actually were making coffee Janette: and start to educate yourself on the whole coffee development. And it's taking coffee beans. Yeah, the scale. What I love about this story you're telling us, you think that someone that does coffee, like you what you're doing would be that person, but you are coming at it from that not being your thing. Craig Dubitsky: I'll tell you a funny story. Our daughter, so I'm married, we have two kids. And again, this is several years ago. So our daughter at the time was still in high school. we're in our driveway, I'm getting ready to take her to school in the morning. And I'm telling her that, you know, I think I'm gonna play around in the coffee space. She goes, let me get this straight. You don't drink coffee. And I'm like, that's correct. And she's like, Okay, but this is amazing, because you don't like cleaning so much. And there was this method thing. And that kind of worked out. Janette: Yeah, yeah. Craig Dubitsky: You choose to go down the list. And she's like, and you don't like shaving. And I'm not a lip balm user, because it's interesting going back to Yes, sort of. Well, yeah. But going back to like, this notion of being an outsider. Yeah, an outsider. That's the theme. But the other thing was like, I didn't like lip balm, because people use lip balm, and they never stop using lip balm. Janette: You have like, you think there's something in negative connotation. Craig Dubitsky: She has products there's like a make them better you know cuz like people are really like they they they depend on them in some ways. So she's like you don't like lip balm as a user and you don't shave and you start yes there's a shaving cream and lip balm. So you don't like cleaning there's this method thing you don't like shaving lip balm there's this thing. you don't really like going to the dentist, then there's this oral care thing you started. And she's like, it makes complete sense that you would start a coffee company. Yeah, yeah. From the mouths of babes. Janette: Right? Like you had like this epiphany. But I think what's also interesting about that is like, if someone tried to force it, you know, like, what do I not like, I'm gonna, it just seems to happen, like in, you know, in life, all of a sudden, it materializes what it is, you can't really, like go looking for something that you don't like and try to change it. Craig Dubitsky: It just happens. It's hard to do. I think what happens, I think you're spot on. I think something either inspires you because you see what isn't there and you wish were there. Um, so there's like a hopeful side of it. And then there's sometimes this other side, which is a little more negative, which is like, Oh, I hate what's there. And I, you know, right, right. But either way, whether it's like a little more of the optimistic side, or the pessimistic side, what I think is at the heart of all of it is something's not satisfying you. And I'm much more of an optimist. So I'm sure like what could be versus I don't like what is so. Rachel: Question then do after you invented, you know, it did the EOS and the method and now the coffee, you do drink coffee now, but do you use lip balm now? Do you? Craig Dubitsky: So I'm still not a huge coffee drinker. So I don't want to go on record be like, yeah, now I drink coffee all the time. Yeah, yeah, no. And clearly, I don't still know how to shave. And I don't use lip balm. I do. I do use hello every single day, multiple times a day. I had all my teeth and I had one cavity and it's when I was a kid and way before hello existed. So yay, hello. Janette: You know what, can we take a moment here? I have a side question. Okay. Interrupting. Yeah. This is so many questions. Okay. So hello, it does not contain fluoride, correct? Craig Dubitsky: Some do and some don't. Janette: Yeah. Can we just take a moment to talk about, do you know the backstory of fluoride? I mean, we don't have to include this, but I'm curious about what's bad about fluoride. Rachel: What I used to say, I did take a deep breath. Craig Dubitsky: It's again, in my like deep dives and what's what I would say is, by the way, Florence naturally occurring for everyone that's like on the fringe and out there. There's like a gazillion other scientists that are like, well, it's been clinically proven to do all these really positive, fortified teeth and calcium. Janette: Yeah. Craig Dubitsky: There's a reason they put it in water for so many years. It does actually take care of the enamel of your teeth and teeth are really your oral health is part of your whole body health. You can't separate them. It's inextricably linked. healthy teeth and healthy mouth are really a part of being healthy full stop. So we made fluoride free products. And our thing was, I made this up. I was like, we believe in a brushers right to choose. So if you if you if you don't want fluoride, that's okay. And if you want fluoride, that's okay. It's like politics, right? Rachel: Like, yeah, you have an option. Craig Dubitsky: But what people, I know what people don't want, and what they don't want are cavities. So what we did was, we said, okay, if you're anti-fluoride, you can be anti-whatever you want, you're anti-fluoride, but I know you're not pro-cavities, so, because cavities are really, really bad, because what happens is, without going down a humongously crazy rabbit hole, cavities and oral health, but once bacteria gets into your, your gums are like the gateway in a lot of ways to your heart. So once bacteria, if you have a cavity, gets into your gums, it gets into your bloodstream, it gets into your heart, it's a really big problem. So people don't want cavities. So what we did was we said, well, what else could we use other than fluoride to help prevent cavities? And we use this other ingredient that's also natural. It's erythritol, which now also gets sometimes a bad rap. It depends what you use it for. It's like anything. It's about usage and dosage. Rachel: Right. It's also I was going to say about dosage with the fluoride, like, sure, if you had overdosed on fluoride somehow, then, yeah, everything could be negative. Craig Dubitsky: Oh, wine is wine is good for you. Yeah, OK. But, you know, you have too much wine. It's not so good for you. Janette: Well, I mean, here in New Jersey, just since this podcast is Jersey, Los Angeles, we don't have fluoride in our water system. And when we moved here, we were like, Oh, my God, you know, and we have our kids, we're having our kids, we had to do fluoride treatments for up until I think they were five. Rachel: So they gave you the prescription vitamin with Janette: Right. And then after you got your teeth cleaned, you'd have to do a fluoride, you know, you had to do a lot to keep your teeth, the enamel growing correctly in the very developmental years of your child's life. And I just wanted to double check that an expert in toothpaste making also was like, yeah, it's okay. Craig Dubitsky: You're good. Rachel: So to get back on the other topic, I wanted to ask, um, so no, you were saying how you got happy and yeah. Craig Dubitsky: You know, big retailer asked me about it and then, you know, being connected to the largest vertically integrated coffee roaster in the world. So all that sort of like came together really nicely. I love names and naming and I'm married to someone who can't function without her cup of coffee. And it's not just about function. It's about joy for her, you know, thinking about what you could call something. When I saw brands with like automatic weaponry and devil heads and skulls. No, it's kind of wild out there. I was like, no, just called happy. Like what if coffee makes people happy? What if happy could make their coffee? That was it. And I remember when I really went in my mind, like, OK, I'm all in on this thing. I was on a plane, and I'm on lots of planes. And I had my headphones on. I'm listening to whatever I was listening to. I can't quite recall, but I remember being on this plane. Headphones were on. It was my first flight, actually, after COVID. And I'm sitting there, and I was just writing stuff that would enter my mind. And I wrote, Bruin improved. And I was like, I'm done. I'm doing it. Janette: was it? Yeah. Craig Dubitsky: Really? I wrote Bruin Improved. Janette: And I'm like, yeah, you're like, this is so me. Craig Dubitsky: It just felt like, you know, people love coffee, like it makes them feel really good. And like, I just thought that that's it. Like, um, I saw that I wrote it down. And, you know, we trademark that was just pretty cool. That is very cool. In a million years, if you ever told me, I'd be partnered and have as a partner one of the most famous actors and talents, because he's not just an actor in the world. I would have been like, yeah, OK. And to think that I might know somebody who would know Robert Downey Jr., even that, I'd be like, no. And I think the world is small, and I think we're two degrees away from everybody anyway. But that never would have occurred to me. Yes. It turns out I know someone who knows Robert Downey Jr. And this person knew that I was thinking about coffee and that we're friendly. And I was telling him all these things that were happening. I trademarked the word happy and all this stuff. And basically I got introduced to Downey and I wasn't looking for a business partner or a co-founder. And I got introduced to Downey and we had this wild, literally it was a three hour and 40 minute phone call. Before video chat. I told him, I said, listen, no disrespect, but I didn't Google you, Wiki you, TMZ you, New York Post, Page Six you. Janette: You didn't do your homework. Craig Dubitsky: I was like, I don't know anything about you. Our son was a teenager and I saw some Marvel movies, but other than that, I don't know anything. And I didn't want to know anything unless it came from you. Tell me your story. And we had this conversation. Rachel: I think that was probably interesting for him cuz well i'm sure you're you could be the only person who's ever said that. Craig Dubitsky: And next to me i wasn't where i am now but next to me was was this very guitar this weird steinberger thing yeah this guitar and he saw it and he's like is that a steinberger guitar and i'm like. you know what that guitar is? And he goes, dude, he was very dude at the moment. He's like, dude, how old are you? So turns out we're the same age. He's a few months older than I am, maybe four months older than I am. And he's like, and where'd you grow up? And we just start talking, connecting all these dots. And then before you know it, we go down these incredible musical rabbit holes, and we're singing esoteric, deep cut Elvis Costello lyrics. Rachel: Oh, wow. Craig Dubitsky: By the way, this morning I bought my tickets. Janette: I was just gonna say he's coming to the Wellmont. Craig Dubitsky: I bought it. I'm already there. I have a wild Elvis story, by the way, if you want. Yeah. I've seen Elvis in New Jersey before. It was one of the most surreal experiences of my life. A friend called me, a really, really great friend of mine goes, Hey, what are you doing like Thursday night? And this is like a day or something. I'm like, I don't know, like, like, what am I doing Thursday night? And by the way, my friend lives in Texas now. Are you in town? He's like, well, sort of. I go, What do you mean? He's like, well, Thursday night, like, are you free? I'm like, yeah, I'm free. He's like, okay, this person I'm dating, her boss, it's his birthday. And Elvis Costello is coming to his office to perform for his birthday. Janette: Can I be there? Craig Dubitsky: Fast forward, we get invited me and this guy's a very clearly interesting guy. And he and he loves Elvis. So he hired Elvis to come play his birthday party. And we go to the birthday party and it's Elvis with a guitar and a piano, just Elvis. There's no one else. It's just Elvis. And it's surreal, right? Like this is amazing. And then the craziest part was after Elvis does his whole set and he's incredible, we're all just like mesmerized and blown away. The guy whose birthday it was, he turns the birthday into his wedding and he gets married to the woman that he was dating. And Elvis and this other person, like the officiants at this wedding. Rachel: Oh my gosh. Craig Dubitsky: Totally. I am the luckiest person. Like the world is just wild. So anyway, so I bond over, you know, Elvis, which I never told him that story. I should have to, I might have to revisit that. Yeah. Anyway, it, the conversation just keeps going and going and going. And I hear a lot about his life and I hear a lot about coffee and his life and coffee has played this very important role in his life. And he's really, He's a super taster like you give him five cups of coffee where the beans come from different elevations and he can like right. He's really he's a super taster so we kept talking and talking and talking i heard a lot about his life and i heard a lot about his wife i'm susan downey and basically how. You know, coordinate to Roberts like you know, she saved my life like she's you know, I mean he's he's he's been open about that and a lot of articles and interviews. Yeah, yeah, he's they they have a real love affair. It's really a beautiful, beautiful thing. She's she's incredible. I said, you know, I don't have the same or didn't have the same circumstances as you. But I am also married to someone who had this asymmetrical outsized impact on my life. And I hope for anybody with a significant other, I hope they feel like they are with someone who's also had credible impact on their lives. And I hope those people feel the same about, you know, the other party involved. And i talked a lot about my bride and how i used to be a trader derivatives trader and all this financial stuff and she said you have one life like what are you doing. Like your credit person all your friends are created people like your it's not really great for you to sit my tweak a black shows model and trade options. Derivatives and like, what are you doing? And I was like, well, you know, we live in New York City and it's expensive. We want to have children. She's like, we could live in a tent like that. Bullshit's on you. Like you have one life and you, this isn't what you are, who you are and you really shouldn't. keep doing that. And she was 1000% right. And I and I quit and to say, my life got so much better would be such a grave understatement. So I was sharing how my life kind of saved my life in so many ways. And we sort of had this additional bond over talking about that. And by the end of this conversation with him, I said, I really want to meet your wife. And he's like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, yeah, she's great. And I was like, No, like, I really want to meet your wife. And I want you to meet my wife and my wife to meet the two of you. And he could tell I wasn't just like ending the conversation with some, you know, like, platitude, you know, nice to me. Janette: Let's go have lunch. Yeah. Craig Dubitsky: Like, I was kind of emphatic about he definitely picked up on that. And he said, Well, that's, well, that's kind of interesting. And I said, Well, in life, you can choose your friends, but you can't choose your family. And when you start a company, it's like being able to choose your family. So I want to meet your family. And I want you to be my family. And, and my, my wife, who would not know Robert Downey Jr. If she stepped on him. Janette: That's so crazy. Craig Dubitsky: It was like, I have to get on a, like a FaceTime or zoom, whatever the platform was that we use with like a Hollywood superhero and his wife, like, it's like, that's your business. That's like your thing. Like I said, listen, we're some suburban normies. Like they have red carpets to walk down. Like it'll be 10 minutes. Like they don't, it's going to be short and sweet. Yeah. And we get on this video chat and we ended up, we had to go. We were on for over two and a half hours. We had to go. We had to do something early the next morning. It was nighttime. And they were amazing. And we got off the call and she says, okay, that was amazing. They're amazing. You were something I can't always say you are, which was a good listener. They were improving your ideas. You were listening to their ideas. You were working together to improve their ideas. Like everyone was really like beautiful. supportive conversation of one another's ideas and actually elevating and improving each other's ideas in this really fun and certainly respectful and lovely way. And she's like, why wouldn't you partner? Like, is it like an ego thing? Or is it a money thing? Janette: Oh, so you were hesitant? Were you hesitant? Craig Dubitsky: I wasn't looking for I was sort of like, I'm gonna do this thing. You know what, you're 1000% right. He's awesome. She's awesome. We couldn't stop smiling. Like, why? Like, yeah, like, let's go for it. Janette: Yeah, he's listed as co founder, right? Craig Dubitsky: Yeah, yeah, he, we would have launched probably around 10 months sooner than we did. But he was so particular about the blends, and about the sourcing and about the ratio of the different beans to make the blends. So at one point, he was filming the show called the sympathizer that was on. Rachel: Yeah, we saw it. Craig Dubitsky: We were overnighting him scales, thermometers, timers, Chemex, like pour over things, filters, and these different blends that we were in a roasting room, a cupping room with a bunch of Q graders. I'll tell you about Q graders in a second. And we were overnighting these things to him in Vietnam. video together live, because you know, it's a significant time difference, but it's just like a flip of the day. Like we kept overnighting stuff, and then we'd have the next day's tasting together. And then we'd overnight stuff, and we tweak and then send it over and then have the next day's tasting. And we've had so much fun. In fact, on the pack of the whole bean and ground coffee, in one of the beans, we have this little design element that is in two of the corners. And I call this like the Susan Downey divot like because of her. Yeah, the opening it. Yeah, yeah. That came from Susan who was like, well, you know, like there are women who are going to use this thing and their hands aren't as big as yours. And they may have nails. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A little grip point. You know, it's funny. Janette: It's so crazy that you said that because I had down here that I wanted to ask you is there some secret thing on this packaging as there is on all of your packaging, right? There's something uniquely done. And you just told us there is a secret. dynamic Downey. Well, I want to ask you a little bit about the packaging while we're at it. Okay, so here it is. The packaging is very different from the traditional packaging of coffee products. And you had said early on that when you went down the aisle, and you saw coffee, and you started to think about what could be different. How did because normally you'd imagine green or brown or yellow, those are the common colors that you see. But this is almost like Medicaid. It's almost like medicine. in some weird people. Craig Dubitsky: It is. Janette: Yeah. And that's what I thought. I'm like, I really do. I've said it many times. This coffee is my medicine. I don't take this and that. I take a cup of coffee and it helps me keeps my depression away, which kind of works with the word happy. Strangely, it keeps me a little, a little up. Rachel: in a natural way. Is that your intention that it would look? Craig Dubitsky: I think our thinking anyway, was less about any kind of medicinal aspect. It was really more about a couple of things, actually, not just one. So let's start with bags. You could be the most avid coffee aficionado ever, and tell me about, oh, I only drink this Indonesian civet pooped out coffee, because it's like the greatest thing ever. And that's the only thing I drink. And that's great for that. Yeah. And they'll show me their bag. And I'm like, you know, that bag goes right into a landfill. Yeah, yeah. leave the coffee part aside for a second probably cost a gazillion dollars to send over forget about all that stuff that bag is going right into a landfill those bags those coffee bags traditional coffee bags they are mixed material you cannot recycle those right right in the landfill so the first thing was like well is there a material that we could use that is highly not only highly recyclable but highly desirable for recyclers because what most people don't think about there's a a lot of plastic, and recycling is a business. And if you're making something and it's technically recyclable, but no one recycles it because they can't make any money recycling it, it's going right into a landfill. So something out of a material like this PET that is desirable for a recycler because they can make money recycling it. The other thing is we have this, it's a custom label, this label that we put on here. Yeah. And it's a substrate that is also 100% curbside recyclable. Janette: You can easily take the label off. Craig Dubitsky: Wait, I'm going to get up and show you something. So you say that. Okay. Janette: Oh, you can reuse my USB drives. Craig Dubitsky: And I'm like, what do I do with those things? Janette: It's true. Oh my gosh. These really are very, you know, design friendly. Rachel: I did think of that when I opened it and I was like, let me see, could I reuse this? Craig Dubitsky: And I can. Yes, you certainly can. Yes, you can repurpose them, reuse them, recycle them for sure. I mean, I grew up where my grandparents had sewing kits, you know, that you got like at a hotel and buttons and other sewing paraphernalia in a blue Danish cookie tin. They had old coffee jars, or sorry, old coffee. Yeah. Those would sit in the garage. I'm like, this is the modern version of a coffee can. Janette: Did you think about that before? I mean, was that like, was it after it was all in the all in the all was It was before. So sometimes it's an accidental like, Oh, I didn't. But yes, it works. Craig Dubitsky: That happens. A lot of people talk about sustainability. It's a great word, right? We were talking earlier about music. So we most people love music. And some of us are musicians, I would never consider myself a musician by any stretch. So if I were to play a note, well, that one's acoustic and this isn't plugged in, but if I were to play a note on my guitar and it's electric and it is great sustain, if I played a note and it was sustained, you just get a headache. When things are sustained, they stay the same. I don't want things to stay the same. I want things to be better. So this notion of sustainable, it's like, oh, things are going to stay the same. No, what if things could actually be better? And what if we made things that were actually so awesome, you wanted to keep them? Rachel: I appreciate hearing that and the way you were thinking also about how people would make money recycling it. It's not just keeping the status quo, it's finding out which material would actually be helpful for the recycler, recyclers. Janette: Yeah, no, it's a very smart way to think of it. Craig Dubitsky: Yeah, thoughtful about everything. I don't know if I'm making up a word or not, but this notion of like, utility, like, how do you make it beautiful? Janette: Utility, I found it at CVS, and coffee aisle, and I got it. But I think that point about the medical and that you've also partnered with the National Alliance of mental illness. Is that what you were going to talk about? Rachel? Rachel: Yes, I wanted to talk about how I thought it was so fascinating. And I don't know if I've seen this so much I haven't is that a product is in partnership with rather than for this month, if you buy our product, it's going to, we're going to give a percentage to it. Yeah. Craig Dubitsky: You nailed it. You totally nailed it. I'm so, this is making me so, so happy because I didn't pepper you guys with points beforehand. Like what are we going to talk about? This is all very truly organic. So to hear what you're sharing with me is, is really, um, yeah, I'm like blushing. So, uh, first thank you for, for buying some. It's now at Target, it's at Walmart, it's all over the place. It's really incredible. The growth is, I've never seen anything grow this fast, frankly. The NAMI piece is really, I think, such a special thing. And here's what happened. So we're called happy, and not everybody's happy. Rachel: Hmm. So even if you're a happy person by default, you can't be happy 24 seven. Yeah. Craig Dubitsky: Right. I was talking with Downey. He literally was like, well, not everybody's happy. Like what can we do about that? Like, like coffee can only do so much. And my bride is a PhD in clinical psychology and she's sitting in the background and I'm on like, you know, FaceTime with daddy. I go, honey, Who's doing something amazing in mental health and at scale? And she did not miss a beat. She's like, oh, NAMI, National Alliance on Mental Illness. I start Googling and I'm like, all right, this is amazing. So the world being incredible and small and basically not being shy, I used this thing called the LinkedIn. No, you didn't. And I ended up connecting with somebody at NAMI who then connected me with other people at NAMI. Here's the real stuff. The real stuff is, Yep. Coffee's cool. Trademark happy. You know, that's all great. Once you realize these stats. So when I was a kid, 58, when I was a kid, the number one killer of teens, that was an auto accident was the number one killer. And number two was I think like childhood leukemia. Fast forward to where we are now, the number one killer of teens in America is handguns. And number two is suicide. And they often go together. The suicide rate in adults is up 30% in the past two decades, adults have some form of mental illness. And I don't mean like, Oh, I thought it was gonna be sunny today. I have this thing to do work. I'm a little sad about that. All that is real. And those are real emotions. And I mean, to discount them. But I'm talking like DSM four level clinical medical mental illness, one in five, right, which is incredible. It's an organization started by a group of parents in Wisconsin, several decades ago. And back then, if your child had certain mental health issues, those were like tantamount to a death sentence, basically, it was like, You know, now there are things where, oh, if you have a diagnosis like X, Y, or Z, there's a medication for you and you're fine. Well, 40, 50, 60 years ago, that was not even possible. And people didn't even know how to broach the topic of mental health or they would say like, oh, they're crazy. Rachel: crazy, you know, and it's not just about there's a lot of shame. There was a lot of shame and also fear. And it wasn't talked about even necessarily with pediatricians. It was, you know, 100% 100%. Craig Dubitsky: So, so we learned a lot from our new friends at NAMI. And the number one thing we learned from them that they hear from people was, if only I'd known about you sooner. And NAMI started 988, which is the 9-1-1 for mental health. They had over 10 million calls last year. It's only two years old, 988. If you have an iPhone, I'm going to trigger every listener's iPhone. I don't mean to do this. I'll whisper into mine. Hey Siri, I feel depressed. and NAMI shows up. The health app that's built into your phone, you know, the little heart on the app, we check our steps and things like that. There's an entire mental health section that's all powered by NAMI. NAMI is just this incredible organization and they provide real, real help and real hope to so many people and it's free. What if we put information about NAMI on every pack in a QR code and a toll-free number, and not in a heavy-handed way, like if you find it and you see it... No, it's not heavy-handed at all. Rachel: It's well written too. What I was curious about is when you partner with them, do they also have a stake in the company financially? Craig Dubitsky: Well, that's the thing. We didn't want to do something that was performative. And to your earlier comment, like January isn't January anymore. January is dry January. And every month has now been claimed, right? Oh, it's Earth Month. Oh, it's Mental Health Awareness Month. It's Pride Month. Again, these are all really important things. I don't mean to sound- Yeah, right. I know what you mean. No, you don't. You're LGBTQ+, guess what? Every single minute, every single day is LGBTQ plus day for you. Of course. So we wanted to reimagine the relationship between entrepreneurship and philanthropy. So we came up with this idea that, well, what if we gave NAMI a piece of the company? And they were like, what? Like, people don't do that. I'm like, well, that's the whole point. So it's baked in from day zero. It's not, let's just slap a logo on our stuff kind of relationship. We're at all these different NAMI walks across the country. We have product there. We're promoting NAMI's existence. To your earlier point, Rachel, the idea of demystifying and removing stigma from this idea of being able to even talk about mental health and knowing that there are resources and real help. If you can't vocalize that there's even a potential issue, you'll never be able to even remotely come close to solving for anything if you can't even talk about it. After hearing some stories, which I'll share a little bit about in a very respectful way, I hope, it became very clear that what we had wasn't just like mission and purpose, which really felt like about ourselves. We had responsibility, which was like outward facing. I think that's sort of taking this notion of mission and purpose and elevating it a little bit. And I stress this word responsibility because ever since announcing this thing, on January 30th, I've heard from someone who I either thought I knew really well, some cases do know really well, or someone I just met, someone I've never really met and may never meet, I hear a story that is like soul-crushing, heartbreaking, harrowing beyond belief. And I was in all candor, transparency, honesty, I was not really prepared that that was going to be what was going to happen. Because I was very sort of academic about this, like, here's what NAMI does, and they're the biggest, and they're this and that, and they did this, and we're going to put all the pieces together. Well, every day, like, there's even someone on our team who I love and I've known for a long time, and we were talking about why we're here, why we're doing what we're doing. And this person, again, being respectful of privacy, said, well, you know, one of the reasons I'm here is because when I was 13, my, you know, sibling took their life. And this is someone who I've known for a very long time, and I was like, I never knew that. And i was sharing that story again in a very respectful way with a really really dear friend of mine who said you're not gonna believe this we had to pull our daughter out of school she's home with us now for a little bit and we need to be able to talk about it and knowing that there are resources available caring considered scientifically based help, medical help that's there, and it doesn't cost anything, is unbelievably important. People need to know about it. And will it change how we drink coffee? Probably not. And should it? Probably not. That's not really the point. I like to say, we're in the happy business. And coffee is a delivery mechanism for us. Like it's the way we're going to open the door to these other sorts of conversations. And if we do it right, and if we make the product amazing, it's something you join, not that you just drink, and not that you just transact with it. That's the big idea. And to partner with NAMI in a real partnership, where it's not just like, let's swap logos. Janette: The partnership seems to be very holistic. The journey you've been taking with all your brands, and it just seems to be getting more larger and larger, the thoughtfulness of your products. Craig Dubitsky: And, you know, it turns out the more you talk about this, the more you realize we have in common with more people. And that's sort of the idea. You know, people talk about, Oh, we're going to build community. And there's community that goes well beyond geography. But the thing is, what we found was coffees, a commodity, people are unique. So what if we were focused on people and make great coffee, but focus on, on people and the uniqueness of people versus like us trying to tell you how unique the beans are and how unique the roasting is like, It's just a different flip on everything. Rachel: I also appreciate you didn't give your directions. Yes, I appreciate that. Those are amazing. Make, drink, just smile, repeat. No, like, take one tablespoon level of this. Janette: Which is so funny, because when I made it, I was like, should I use a scoop? Free style is important. SPEAKER_01: You've got to have your own style. Janette: Well, this has been a great conversation, a great 100th episode. Craig Dubitsky: Thank you for everything. Janette: Yeah, happy Thanksgiving. Rachel: Happy everything. Happy everything. Thanks, Craig. This podcast is produced by Rachel Martens and Janette Afsharian. Please follow us on Facebook and Instagram. We hope you share this pod with your friends and family and let us know what you think. Check out our website at lostinjersey.site. And don't forget to get lost.